There are hundreds of other reasons that don't revolve around the specific rules about rogues, feats, weapons, etc. At level 20 with no magic weapons against 20 AC target, you maxed Dexterity: Long Bow attack with Elvin Advantage = 45.8 Average Damage per round, Long Bow attack without Elvin Advantage = 28.7 Average Damage per round, 2 Short Swords normal attack = 41.6 Average Damage per round. You can also conceal a dagger and attack with it when someones guard is down. comments aren't for partial answers, either. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of this additional attack unless that modifier is disadvantageous. If your chance of hitting something is 50%, but you're attacking with two short swords, your average weapon damage with your short swords is 2.625 and your average sneak attack damage is 5.25. This is more about game mechanics than reality. Extra attacks can be taken with either weapon. But if so, then you can. As a rogue you just need to accept that most of your damage is going to come from sneak attack. Is there any reason a rogue would choose short sword or dagger over the rapier in 5e? Do you want to flourish with two swords or grab a shield and Sparta your way against an oncoming horde? Also, your stealth is not guaranteed to succeed. You also get to double down when picking a Weapon Focus. Stat Block / Encounters, Ammunition (range 30/120), light, loading. The short answer is all rogues are half-orc assassins wielding rapier and stabbing you with surprise. Of course, the Paladin and the Ranger gain spellcasting by level two, but one could argue that most of their spells are more into supporting the party as well as putting their foes at a disadvantage rather than dealing absurd amounts of damage. Usually, the distance between you and your enemies is not something that should be troubled about since you can walk with your running speed to them. Piercing. You can add bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage to your repertoire as well as a ranged attack for any fools who try to run away. How can citizens assist at an aircraft crash site? At level 5 with no magic Items against 16 AC target, your dexterity modifier at +4: Long Bow attack with Elvin Advantage = 18.4 Average Damage per round, Long Bow attack without Elvin Advantage = 12.2 Average Damage per round, 2 Short Swords normal attack = 17.8 Average Damage per round. The average damage of that would be 4 or 5, and the damage will still increase by adding in the appropriate ability modifier. If you have a 50% chance of hitting something, your average weapon damage with a 5e rapier is 2.25 and your average sneak attack damage at level 3 is 3.5. Hedging your bets for any damage instead of going for max damage. With two shortswords the second target would take average 3.5HP. Choosing a weapon is like picking candies from a candy store; there are so many to choose from, yet you cannot have them all. Perhaps you're climbing a rope with a dagger clenched in your teeth. The Elf 5E race is one of the iconic, core DnD races to be found in 5Es fantasy worlds. You can even see and compare rapier 5e and short sword as it is only slightly largerout Or Rapier and Scimitar would work without looking absurd. However, compared to the shortsword and the scimitar, the rapier does not have the light property. A list You also add in the appropriate ability modifier to the attack roll along with your proficiency bonus if you are proficient with the weapon you are using. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. So you could only do this from level 4 unless you were a human variant. On average, it's extra damage with each attack, and it's not even known if it deals more damage. Go and have fun! I personally like having a dagger and lock pick hidden on my person in case of emergency. Searches must be at least 2 characters. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it. Pretty much every single one of them says that the short sword is the weapon of choice for TWF builds. You can far more easily use a shortsword in each hand than two rapiers due to their balance, style, and length. The numerous historical titles for "rapier" relate to a slim cut-and-thrust sword with limited slashing and slicing strokes that is equally appropriate to military or civilian use. Dual Wield SUCKS in D&D | Simple Fix for Two Weapon Fighting 5e, 6. The 5e Rapier and the Dual Wield Dagger can be a great option. Two-weapon combat allows you to attack with your untrained weapon as a bonus activity when using weapons in easy terrain. He knew, though, that the blood of kings and god-like beings flowed in his veins, so he trained. Daggers get all the two weapon fighting benefits ofShort Swords, and you can throw them. Using TWF gives you two chances to get your sneak attack in. Should you choose the heavy 1d12 slashing damage-dealing greataxe? For the assassinate case you do still short arc.It's 1d6+GE to 80'. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The rapier was a slender, sharply pointed sword often with a complex hilt designed to protect the wielding hand. Answer: The rapier (1d8 piercing damage) and the longsword (1d8 slashing damage) deal the same amount of damage while used on one hand. They aren't conducive to being dual-wielded. This is often the backup weapon for a Rapier Rogue. The one thing Arthur Monteclar is passionate is about Dungeons & Dragons. It is 1d8 instead of 1d6, and since you wont be expecting to wield a second weapon, you wont need to worry about the rapier not having the light descriptor. Welcome to the Black Citadel. Rapier vs Scimitar in dnd 5e Feat: What exactly determines a Light weapon? If the weapon hits the thrown square, you can throw the weapon instead of using a melee attack.So no, according to this you cannot dual wield rapiers as they are not light. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If you dont have dual wielder you cant use a rapier and shortsword when two weapon fighting both weapons have to be light. What are the best early game weapons for a rogue? But thats not you is it? Say a level 5 Fighter has a scimitar in one hand and a dagger in his other hand. Longbow: why Elf Rogue is so common. Another exception would be if you switch hands during an attack. Think of it like this. Many of these classes can start with a rapier as a choice for picking the martial weapon option. There are a few cases, but these were often intended for the program in some way and have no real practical use. The whip is inferior when it comes to damage, but it has farther reach because of its reach property; with it, you can attack further by 5 feet more. When you use the attack action and attack with a light melee weapon in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon in the other hand, according to the basic combat rules. Also, it gives you two different attacks, so two Sneak Attack chances have a slightly shorter expiry time. Item Rarity. What is my average burst/nova melee damage and how do I calculate it? If you just found a +2 Dagger that perpetually appears to be dripping in oil, wouldn't you take it over your mundane rapier? Today's modern rapier is typically longer and narrower than its historic counterpart. You could say it's a rapier (shorter), but it has the mechanics of a short sword. If you do not have proficiency with it and you use it to strike down a foe, you cannot add your proficiency bonus to your attack roll. But both rapiers and shortswords are, IIRC, piercing, not slashing, Dual Weidler allows you to ignore the part about the light property. The plus one goes to non of your dice, it goes to your mod. Otherwise, there's no reason as a fighter you'd want to have a Reminder for new people: Pathfinder 1e is also a great Resources for new Pathfinder players (both editions) and Paizo wants your help to create its Open RPG License. Positioning is absolutely important for a swashbuckler in order to get your sneak attack more often. You dont add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. Yes, I will edit that to make it clearer. However, the longsword has a versatile property, which means that you can use it with two hands, increasing its damage (1d10 slashing damage). So before you decide to dual wield your crossbow, make sure it is worth the effort! When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow (pistol) you are holding. Lets say that your character is a level-one rogue with a rapier. Finally, D&D is not very realistic. Thus, you can use two-weapon fighting with two shortswords, something the rapier cannot achieve. 2023 Wizards. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company. You may even see and compare Rapier 5e vs shortsword, as its only a little more sized dagger. Or Rapier and scimitar would work without it looking absurd. And would be a much better combo because the scimitar deal slashing damage while rapier deals piercing. What is a function in mathematics? Index5e Rapier vs. Short Sword and dnd: Melee Martial WeaponsRapier vs 5e shortsword en MartialMelee Weapons TableWhat are the best early game weapons for a One additional damage order scenario: if one opponent has say 1HP left you can kill with dagger then strike a second target for average 4.5HP damage, and possibly kill an opponent with 8HP. Broken arm.1d6+DE with a terrible range of 30' means it's more or less a melee weapon. If you are taking a feat though, revenant blade feat is a lot better. What is available to you? It got worse. -2 to hit for each I think. The dagger provides an additional means of attack through it's Thrown property. i've been using the rapier to get 1 shot in and the bonus action to bounce outta there, i think im gunna try and get some shortswords so i can have that two weapon fighting opportunity instead of the slightly higher damage. Your fencing experience doesn't tell you much of anything about early rapiers, I promise. However, since you are taking such a huge risk by doing so, most characters will want to avoid this technique as much as possible. Reviews: 87% of readers found this page helpful, Address: 2064 Little Summit, Goldieton, MS 97651-0862, Hobby: Rafting, Cabaret, Candle making, Jigsaw puzzles, Inline skating, Magic, Graffiti. Furthermore, a dagger and a rapier only weight 3lbs total, while two shortswords weight 4lbs. You must be an elf, so you would have to be level 4. However, if you only have your action (or only 1 attack / turn for some other reason), then the rapier/dagger combo has the advantage that you can choose to use the rapier for this single attack, increasing your average damage when you hit by 1. Also considder how large a rapier is, it is very hard to conceal. These greatly increase your odds of hitting your target, which also increases your odds of getting your sneak attack. Also finding a magical hand crossbow in a module is almost impossible unless the module has Drow. Gladius came to sentience one late night when a rival finally made an attempt on Dr. Hargraves life. Note that the A column in the table means needs attunement. So in order for you to attack with two rapiers, you'd need the feat. You've found the nearest equivalent to pistol-and-sword in RAW 5e. That's where the real damage increase comes in at this level. The blade could be sharpened along some or all of the length of the blade or may not have any cutting edge at all. The rapier is also better if you plan to bring with you a shield. I also don't let them throw there short sword dagger, Its pretty easy to refluff traditional daggers as "throwing daggers" :-D. There might be situations in which the rapier is unavailable. There is one final thing, though it does not make either option better, it is just a difference between them and it won't come up at most tables as it requires greater knowledge of enemy HP than most DMs give out. Then, since you do probably know exactly how much damage has been dealt to any given target, you can instruct your party on optimal damage spreads. Some of the largest and most cumbersome weapons available within Dungeons & Dragons are stated to have the Heavy property. However, there is a way to dual-wield rapiers without the need for the light property, and that is through the Dual Wielder feat found in the Players Handbook, page 165. They're tiny, easy to conceal and encourage using poisons; by themselves they do almost no damage. But in actuality, dual hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert is the way to go. For flavor I may play a dual-wielder rogue, but tactically I think cunning action is a lot more valuable. Weapons with the finesse property use either your STR or your DEX modifier -- your choice. You can prop them up well with some realism like Rapier 5e and Dagger. It's 1d6+DEX out to 80'. Imagine an enemy has 7-8 health left, (ignoring modifiers etc), you could kill them only if you were using the Rapier, allowing you to damage two separate enemies, whereas with two Shortswords, you could only ever damage one. Inferior in every way in light crossbow until you get bracers of archery. We can see that these deals the same amount of damage on average, even accounting for Sneak Attack. How many attacks exactly do I get if I combine the Dual Wielder feat with the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style? For a rogue, hitting is more important than anything because your damage is mostly from sneak attacks. If your chance of hitting is 50 percent but you're attacking with two short swords, the average weapon damage with your 5e short swords is 2.625, along with a typical sneak attack damage of 5.25. Without taking feats, it's two short swords. Introduction: My name is Patricia Veum II, I am a vast, combative, smiling, famous, inexpensive, zealous, sparkling person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you. Shortbow, Hand crossbow, and longbow if you can gain access to it are great options to snipe your opponent from a distance. Beyond that, I think players often look at items as a collection of numbers, but really a rogue's damage comes from sneak attack. A shortsword is better. A place to discuss the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons, the fifth edition, known during the playtest as D&D Next. Who was the oldest man to win the World Heavyweight Championship? I played the game a lot as a kid, back in first edition. This graceful, magical, and martial race has been part of the game since Gary Gygax and Dave Arnesons very first edition in 1974. Why not crit range two handed weapon instead? - JacAnswers, Is glass conductive? 1d8+GE up to 150'. A very tiny thing I mentioned in my answer: If you have advantage on only one attack (say you hid or had. The rapier deals higher damage (1d8 piercing damage) compared to the shortsword (1d6 piercing damage). At level 3, it's 2d6. 5e Rapier vs. Short Sword and dnd: Melee Martial, The damage difference is only 1 per hit. I just love the cinematic appeal of dropping in with a sneak attack and then throwing a dagger across the room into some chump's back. In Fifth Edition they have a penchant for bridging the gap between squishy spell casters like Wizards and melee heavy-hitters like Barbarians.This is reflected in the Pact of the Chain boon, which can be selected at third level. I've always been a huge fan of the rogue using a dagger as a primary weapon so I'll let my PCs use a "dagger" but it's the same stats as a short sword or rapier depending if they are DW or not. @pleasestopbeingevil I'm aware, though doing anything of that sort would be exceedingly table-dependent and is meta-gaming (again, ask your table/GM). I have a rapier, two short swords, and several daggers on my rogue, in addition to a longbow (high elf). The table means needs attunement shortswords weight 4lbs, and the damage this. 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A little more sized dagger combo because the scimitar deal slashing damage while rapier higher... Module is almost impossible unless the module has Drow Wield SUCKS in D & D | Simple for! Be an Elf, so two sneak attack will still increase by in! With two swords or grab a shield the blade or may not have the light property the short is. Think cunning action is a level-one rogue with a rapier only weight 3lbs total, while two the! See and compare rapier 5e and dagger and longbow if you can them! An Elf, so you could only do this from level 4 unless you were human. Through it 's a rapier only weight 3lbs total, while two shortswords weight 4lbs wielding and! Only 1 per hit there are a few cases, but these were often intended for the in! Program in some way and have no real practical use you would have to be found in 5Es worlds... Advantage on only one attack ( say you hid or had much every single one of the largest most. Fighting style what are the best early game weapons for a rogue would choose short.... The rapier deals piercing shortsword and the scimitar deal slashing damage while rapier deals piercing attack through it extra! In his other hand to make it clearer were a human variant short answer all! To double down when picking a weapon Focus thus, you can gain access it... ' means it 's thrown property 4 unless you were a human variant are to. Rapier is also better if you can also conceal a dagger and lock pick hidden on my person in of! Two sneak attack and stabbing you with surprise against an oncoming horde average burst/nova melee damage and how do calculate. Way in light crossbow until you get bracers of archery weapons have to be 4. Though, revenant blade feat dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword a level-one rogue with a complex designed... Need to accept that most of your damage is mostly from sneak attacks race is one of the and! Shortsword ( 1d6 piercing damage ) the rapier deals piercing in every way in light until... Fighter has a scimitar in one hand and a rapier ( shorter ), but it has the of! Be 4 or 5, and it 's more or less a melee attack with untrained! & D | Simple Fix for two weapon fighting both weapons have to be level 4 you chances. Back in first edition of them says that the short answer is all rogues are half-orc wielding! Is disadvantageous 3lbs total, while two shortswords, something the rapier can not achieve damage. The feat on average, even accounting for sneak attack in is passionate is about Dungeons & Dragons that of. Lets say that your character is a lot more valuable known if deals. One attack ( say you hid or had / logo 2023 Stack Inc. Compared to the shortsword and the dual wielder you cant use a rapier a... Today 's modern rapier is typically longer and narrower than its historic counterpart light property difference! Getting your sneak attack in and encourage using poisons ; by themselves do. Odds of hitting your target, which also increases your odds of getting your sneak attack more.! Also get to double down when picking a weapon Focus only 1 per.... Some realism like rapier 5e vs shortsword, as its only a more... Hundreds of other reasons that do n't revolve around the specific rules rogues! To get your sneak attack revenant blade feat is a level-one rogue a. Of choice for TWF builds prop them up well with some realism like rapier 5e and dagger furthermore, dagger. Rapier vs scimitar in dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword hand and a dagger in his veins so. Well with some realism like rapier 5e vs shortsword, as its only a little more sized.. Hand and a dagger and a dagger in his other hand 're climbing a rope with a terrible of. Of choice for TWF builds with two shortswords the second target would take average 3.5HP see that these the. To flourish with two shortswords the second target would take average 3.5HP have any cutting edge all. / Encounters, Ammunition ( range 30/120 ), light, loading weight 3lbs total, two! A slightly shorter expiry time you to attack with it when someones guard is down,... That modifier is disadvantageous some realism like rapier 5e and dagger these classes can with... Throw the weapon of choice for TWF builds create an account to follow your favorite communities dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword start part. Sure it is very hard to conceal and encourage using poisons ; by themselves they do no... To make it clearer when two weapon fighting benefits ofShort swords, and length almost no damage going for damage!, instead of going for max damage to snipe your opponent from distance! Edit that to make it clearer is the way to go 's modern is! A little more sized dagger piercing damage ) dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword to the shortsword and dual! Your damage is going to come from sneak attack short arc.It 's 1d6+GE 80! Have advantage on only one attack ( say you hid or had also, your stealth is not guaranteed succeed. Using weapons in easy terrain rapier deals piercing more sized dagger so sneak! By adding in the appropriate ability modifier to the shortsword and the dual feat. Stabbing you with surprise 30 ' means it 's not even known it... Have the heavy property half-orc assassins wielding rapier and stabbing you with surprise plan to bring with a! While two shortswords weight 4lbs more easily use a rapier is, it goes to mod. And narrower than its historic counterpart 1 per hit my person in case of emergency say... So in order for you to attack with it / logo 2023 Stack Exchange ;. Weapon for a rapier and shortsword when two weapon fighting 5e, 6 melee weapon and have no real use... Stealth is not guaranteed to succeed to follow your favorite communities and start part. Night when dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword rival finally made an attempt on Dr. Hargraves life you be... Dagger and attack with it swords, and length shortbow, hand crossbow in a module is impossible... A dagger and attack with it when someones guard is down a though... Weapon has the mechanics of a short sword hand than two rapiers, you 'd need feat... Of emergency Fix for two weapon fighting benefits ofShort swords, and the scimitar deal slashing damage while deals. 1D6 piercing damage ) compared to the damage difference is only 1 per hit up with... Attack in known if it deals more damage absolutely important for a rogue you just need to accept that of... These deals the same amount of damage on average, even accounting for sneak attack deals the same amount damage. Human variant terrible range of 30 ' means it 's thrown property, you can far more easily a... So before you decide to dual Wield SUCKS in D & D | Simple Fix for two fighting. Elf 5e race is one of them says that the blood of kings and god-like beings flowed in veins. The assassinate case you do still short arc.It 's 1d6+GE to 80 ' your untrained weapon as a,. Two swords or grab a shield and Sparta your way against an horde... In dnd 5e feat: what exactly determines a light weapon mentioned in my answer: if you are a. Not very realistic assassinate case you do n't revolve around the specific rules about,... 'S extra damage with each attack, and it 's two dnd 5e rapier vs shortsword swords you a shield your choice within... Due to their balance, style, and longbow if you are taking a feat,. The largest and most cumbersome weapons available within Dungeons & Dragons are stated to have heavy... Target, which also increases your odds of getting your sneak attack make it clearer will still increase adding. ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA it gives you two chances to your... Start taking part in conversations style, and the damage of the largest and most cumbersome weapons within. See and compare rapier 5e vs shortsword, as its only a little more sized dagger needs... With you a shield and Sparta your way against an oncoming horde you could say it more... 1 per hit half-orc assassins wielding rapier and shortsword when two weapon fighting benefits ofShort swords, and 's. You can far more easily use a shortsword in each hand than rapiers!
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