As a follow-up to yesterday’s post, here are some thoughts about the term “ten thousand” as used in Mormon 6.
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Discussion of 10,000.
The term “ten thousand” appears in the scriptures in these frequencies:
In the Old Testament, it is used to mean a large, but inexact, number.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
(Leviticus 26:8)
This couldn’t mean exactly 10,000. What if 100 of them put 9,999 to flight?
Here’s another figurative usage:
30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?
(Deuteronomy 32:30)
Here, it refers to a unit, not a precise, literal number.
10 ¶ And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.
(Judges 4:10)
Another example of a figurative usage:
11 ¶ And Amaziah strengthened himself, and led forth his people, and went to the valley of salt, and smote of the children of Seir ten thousand.
12 And other ten thousand left alive did the children of Judah carry away captive, and brought them unto the top of the rock, and cast them down from the top of the rock, that they all were broken in pieces.
(2 Chronicles 25:11–12)
There are similar examples in the New Testament.
31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
(Luke 14:31)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
(1 Corinthians 4:15)
It doesn’t seem plausible that any military unit or other group would have exactly 10,000 people in it. Soldiers die, become sick, leave, etc. Adjusting the term for the unit every time the numbers changed would be unmanageable. You wouldn’t refer to the group as 9,999 when one soldier died. It’s a round number, not a precise count.
This is what we see in cultures around the world and throughout history; several languages have a term for “10,000” that means a large number or military unit.
For that reason, I infer that Joseph Smith translated the Nephite term accurately, although the Nephites used it to refer to a unit, not a literal, exact number.
Here are some examples in the Book of Mormon.
28 And also there were sent two thousand men unto us from the land of Zarahemla. And thus we were prepared with ten thousand men, and provisions for them, and also for their wives and their children.
(Alma 56:28)
10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.
(Mormon 6:10)
Would Mormon have used a different term if he actually had 10,001 men? If he had 9,999? 9,500? 7,500?
Surely not. And if the term means a unit instead of an exact count, it affects our interpretation of these passages.
12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each;
(Mormon 6:12–15)
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Biblical scholars have raised the issue about the Bible as well. Because the numbers given in Exodus seem unrealistically large (600,000 men fleeing Egypt, etc.), scholars have proposed the term was used for a unit or group. That debate continues.
Here’s a quick summary:
SPECIAL TOPIC: THOUSAND (eleph)
The Hebrew word eleph means “thousand” (BDB 48, KB 59 II). It is used in several senses in the OT.
1. a family unit, Jos. 22:14; Jdgs. 6:15; 1 Sam. 23:23; Zech. 9:7; 12:6
2. a military unit, Exod. 18:21,25; Deut. 1:15
3. a literal thousand, Gen. 20:16; Exod. 32:28
4. a symbolic number, Gen. 24:60; Exod. 20:6; 34:7; Deut. 7:9; Jer. 32:18
5. the Ugaritic cognate alluph means “chieftain,” Gen. 36:15
These different connotations cause modern interpreters to question the literalness of the numbers
1. of the exodus
2. of Israeli tribal military units
Here’s a paper that quantifies the alternatives.
Here’s a podcast on the question: https://hallel.info/numbers-1-continued-%E2%80%94-controversy-over-translation-of-the-hebrew-word-%E2%80%99elef-as-thousand/
A wikipedia entry makes an interesting point about the number 10,000:
Many languages have a specific word for this number: in Ancient Greek it is μύριοι (the etymological root of the word myriad in English), in Aramaic ܪܒܘܬܐ, in Hebrew רבבה [revava], in Chinese 萬/万 (Mandarin wàn, Cantonese maan6, Hokkien bān), in Japanese 万/萬 [man], in Khmer ម៉ឺន [meun], in Korean 만/萬 [man], in Russian тьма [t’ma], in Vietnamese vạn, in Thai หมื่น [meun], in Malayalam പതിനായിരം [patinayiram], and in Malagasy alina.[1]
In many of these languages, it often denotes a very large but indefinite number.[
Given the widespread use of 10,000 to mean a large number, that would seem to be a natural use by the Nephites as well.
In English, we use the Greek word “myriad” to mean a countless or extremely great number, but in classical history it meant a unit of 10,000.
When I studied Greek, we read Xenophon’s book Anabasis, which recounts the history of the “ten thousand” mostly Greeks who invaded Persia. The name of the unit did not change with the number of soldiers.
The wikipedia article explains the actual numbers of men involved: “When the Ten Thousand started their journey in 401 BC, Xenophon stated that they numbered around 10,400. At the time Xenophon left them two years later, their number had dwindled to just under 6,000.”
And yet, Xenophon did not start referring to them as the “six thousand.”
Anonymous LDS scholars have observed this:
2. A Thousand May Not Actually Mean a Thousand
It is also possible that “ten thousand” represents a military unit and not an exact number of soldiers. In Hebrew, the word eleph can mean the literal number 1,000, but it can also mean a military squad. (Kitchen, On the Reliability of the Old Testament, 264; Hoffmeier, Ancient Israel in Sinai, 153–159.) If this is the case, each military commander could simply have been in charge of 10 “squads” of unknown numbers, putting the number of casualties much lower than they might seem at first. (Other ancient cultures used terms like this as well. The Roman military unit “century” was also the word for 100, but these units often did not have 100 people in them. See Smith, “How Many Nephites?” 286.)
All of this means that the text is subject to multiple interpretations–multiple working hypotheses.
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One approach is to take the numbers literally; i.e., each group of “ten thousand” had exactly 10,000 men, not 9,999 or 10,001, and all 230,000 of them died at or near the Hill Cumorah. That has been a common interpretation over the years and has led people to search for archaeological evidence of a war involving hundreds of thousands of deaths (230,000 Nephites plus an equivalent number of Lamanites, so say 500,000). So far as I know, no such archaeological site has been found anywhere in the Americas.
Another approach is to take the numbers figuratively; i.e., each group of “ten thousand” was a military unit of uncertain numbers, or, alternatively, a generalized round number. In this case, we could look at Xenophon as an example. After two years of war, his “ten thousand” had been reduced to under 6,000. In the case of Cumorah, the final battle took place after many years of retreat and carnage. It’s anyone’s guess how many men in each unit would have died by the time they reached Cumorah, but one could still argue that all 23 units died there. Using Xenophon’s example, the number could be 6,000 times 23, or 138,000 Nephites. It could easily be more or fewer than that.
A third approach (the one I favor) also treats the phrase “ten thousand” as a military unit of unknown numbers, but makes a further distinction between the number of units Mormon said he could actually see from the top of Cumorah–two, his and Moroni’s–and the number of units he could not then see but could remember and reflect upon with the interjection, “Behold.” This means that 20,000 Nephites dying at Cumorah is on the high side. Using Xenophon’s example, it could be 12,000, plus 12,000 Lamanites, for a total of around 25,000.
We can infer, although the text does not say it, that there were more Lamanites attacking than Nephites defending. How many Lamanites were killed is also unknown. But we can reasonably infer that at least as many Lamanites died as Nephites, giving a number in the tens of thousands, but well below one hundred thousand.
All of this means we are dealing with an unknown number of deaths at Cumorah, but most likely a number far lower than 230,000 Nephites.
This is all another variable to consider when evaluating scientific evidence.
Here’s how Oliver Cowdery described the situation from the perspective of Mormon, who knew the Jaredites had died at the spot and the Nephites were about to die there.
In this vale lie commingled, in one mass of ruin the ashes of thousands [of Jaredites], and in this vale was destined to consume the fair forms and vigerous systems of tens of thousands of the human race [Nephites and Lamanites]—blood mixed with blood, flesh with flesh, bones with bones and dust with dust!
In my view, this description matches the text. We have the death of thousands (but not even ten thousand) of Jaredites, and tens of thousands (but not even a hundred thousand) of Nephites and Lamanites.
Assessing scientific evidence for the death of, say, 25,000 men is significantly different from assessing scientific evidence for the death of 500,000 or more in one location.
Source: Letter VII
3 thoughts on “Ten thousand”
The battle described in Alma 2 has more details (very specific death numbers) than any battle in the scriptures that I am aware of. Verse 19 states, “And it came to pass that the Nephites did pursue the Amlicites all that day, and did slay them with much slaughter, insomuch that there were aslain of the Amlicites twelve thousand five hundred thirty and two souls; and there were slain of the Nephites six thousand five hundred sixty and two souls.
The battle continued the next day as described in Chapter 3, Verses 1-3 Notice there is no detailed list of deaths on the 2nd day because of the greatness of the number.
1 And it came to pass that the Nephites who were not aslain by the weapons of war, after having buried those who had been slain—now the number of the slain were not numbered, because of the greatness of their number—after they had finished burying their dead they all returned to their lands, and to their houses, and their wives, and their children.
2 Now many women and children had been slain with the sword, and also many of their flocks and their herds; and also many of their fields of grain were destroyed, for they were trodden down by the hosts of men.
3 And now as many of the Lamanites and the Amlicites who had been slain upon the bank of the river Sidon were cast into the awaters of Sidon; and behold their bones are in the depths of the bsea, and they are many.
That’s a fascinating passage. We wonder how they kept track. Did they bury all those dead bodies?
The phrase “great slaughter” is used 15 times in the Old Testament, usually without specifying a number, but the numbers that are given range from 500,000 (2 Chron. 13:17) to 50,070 (1 Sam. 6:19) down to 30,000 (1 Sam 4:10).
“Great slaughter” is used 8 times in the Book of Mormon. “Much slaughter” is used 2 times.
Here, in Alma 2:18, the Nephites “slew the Amlicites with great slaughter.” Then they pursued the Amlicites and “did slay them with much slaughter,” giving the numbers you mentioned. Later, the Gadianton robbers “did do much slaughter” (3 Ne. 1:27).
It’s interesting that the nonbiblical Book of Mormon phrases “much slaughter” and “immense slaughter” both appear in Josephus.
Alma 3:1 states, “And it came to pass that the Nephites who were not aslain by the weapons of war, after having buried those who had been slain—now the number of the slain were not numbered, because of the greatness of their number—after they had finished burying their dead they all returned to their lands, and to their houses, and their wives, and their children.” This must refer to the deaths on the 2nd day.
Dead soldiers on the west bank were apparently thrown into the river Sidon on the 2nd day to make room to cross (only one exit point out of the river on west bank–probably Prices Creek about 2 miles North of Keokuk). The final cleanup continued the next day after Lamanites and Amlicites retreated westward to the Wilderness of Hermounts (probably the Des Moines River) seeking shelter. I don’t see any verbiage that Nephite soldiers were thrown into the river Sidon. I don’t know of any instances where the Lamanites buried their dead.
Ether 14:20-23 describes bloodthirsty Jaredite armies who were filled with anger and they did not stop to bury the dead. The scent of dead bodies bothered them, but not enough to bury the dead.
20 And they were divided; and a part of them fled to the army of Shiz, and a part of them fled to the army of Coriantumr.
21 And so great and lasting had been the war, and so long had been the scene of bloodshed and carnage, that the whole face of the land was covered with the abodies of the bdead.
22 And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of ablood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the bworms of the flesh.
23 And the ascent thereof went forth upon the face of the land, even upon all the face of the land; wherefore the people became troubled by day and by night, because of the scent thereof.
Alma 16:9-11 describes the burial process at this battle and the scent of so many dead bodies.
9 And thus ended the eleventh year of the judges, the Lamanites having been driven out of the land, and the people of Ammonihah were destroyed; yea, every living soul of the Ammonihahites was destroyed, and also their great city, which they said God could not destroy, because of its greatness.
10 But behold, in one day it was left desolate; and the carcasses were mangled by dogs and wild beasts of the wilderness.
11 Nevertheless, after many days their dead bodies were heaped up upon the face of the earth, and they were covered with a shallow covering. And now so great was the scent thereof that the people did not go in to possess the land of Ammonihah for many years. And it was called Desolation of Nehors; for they were of the profession of Nehor, who were slain; and their lands remained desolate.
It is very interesting that we have the description of the size of each army during the final 3 or 4 days.
Ether 15:20-32
20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.
21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.
25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.
26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.
27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
It is interesting to see the size of the 2 armies shrink the last 3 or 4 days. Coriantumr went from 52 to 27 to ? and Shiz went from 69 to 32 to ?
I always thought that Coriantumr cut off the head of Shiz near the hill Ramah. Apparently, it was at least 1 day of fleeing for their lives in their wounded condition.
It sounds like the Mulekites (people of Zarahemla) made their first landing within days or weeks and met Coriantumr and he lived with them for 9 moons. There were language barriers, but Coriantumr much have given the Mulekites some advice about where to settle.
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