Alright. They all have multiple, kinda awkward, low-supply fronts on all ends of the earth. If you go on the support brigade track, it's actually incredibly useful. The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking. it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. A lot of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which I'm not sure how strong that is. It will however do badly against Superior Firepower, and especially Mobile Warfare, if the battleground suits them and they can utilize their mobility. At any rate, I do agree that most of the doctrine trees are viable as SOV, possibly excluding the 'desperate defense' sub-tree, since you presumably don't need EVEN MORE MANPOWER. :) Added a little guide at the bottom. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Hoi4 best multiplayer nations Hoi4 best multiplayer nations. Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. Best. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? Mass Assault - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki. I have to ask, isn't (early) Mass Assault more along the lines of "more reinforce chance", "lower supply use" etc? Eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved.! Sometimes they're so stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Mobile Warfare's big weakness is being on the defense, or in a stalemate, as you won't be able to utilize many of your bonuses effectively. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. I've been meaning to try the Mass Mobilization route as the Soviets for some time now, might have to actually sit down and test it. Assault or Infiltration?There's not really a wrong choice here. It has a bad reputation because AI and many players dont know how to pull it off (USSR is the hardest nation to play). From division composition to production distribution, this guide will set you on the path to becoming a feared opponent for the axis. Mass mobilization. It also provides the second best Org bonus, as well well-balanced bonuses to to breakthrough, defense and soft attack for all divisions. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In my honest opinion, Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the best land doctrines in the game. It is a contradiction. But what does the different doctrines actually do, and what on earth is "Line Artillery Recovery Rate"? If you are in multiplayer, you might consider keeping it, especially if you expect to be overrun. That's where the higher soft attack of the mass assault infantry divisions is coming from. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Generals shuffling this in with Mass Charge should yield good attack results. You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. So "high IC" means lots of arty then later lots of tanks and mot/mech. The enemy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. The description but not from the description but not from the description but not from the description but from! In these circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. Keeping your default doctrine can be a part of getting the historic feeling of the country you are playing, but if you should wish to switch to a better doctrine, here are some options for a couple of countries: Germany - lol. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. I see you've also given Deep Battle low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which is terrible advice. If you get a big advantage however its the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements. Very powerful other defensive bonuses, to supplies, manpower, partisan effects on enemy etc. Deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption and backhand blow. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. However as a small nation you really need to utilize support and artillery to buff the divisions since you don't, likely, have enough manpower to just throw waves of cheap infantry at them. Playing as a nation that picks up Supererior Firepower, you will be running both full support battalions, and a decent amount of artillery in all infantry divisions. Since the beginning of the war, more than 2000 civilians have been killed by Russian missiles, according to official data. JavaScript is disabled. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. This totally makes sense. Manpower is not a problem only industry. Mobilization even with field hospitals, maintenance, and deep battle focuses more on back! So as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing doctrines and simplistic playstyles. Doesn't USSR has both high manpower and IC? For more information, please see our Possibly the hardest challenge i ever faced in singleplayer. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? Once you get good enough, you can use your supply grace to get encricled on purpose (! Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. It sucks a lot. Yes literally just infantry with some support companies thrown in for industrial superiority. 40% lower Out of Supply debuff (!!!!!!!!! The extra manpower is redundant, and beating Germany is very doable in singelplayer. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Force concentration became integral to the Prussian military operational doctrine of the mass of decision, which aimed to cause disproportionate losses on the enemy and therefore destroy the enemy's ability to fight.. From an empirical examination of past battles, the Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz (17801831) concluded: Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! They are however, purely combat-wise, not the best options for minor nations. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. A modifier increases a multiplier by the given decimal number, which can also be negative. Also using RART instead of ART it's 10 less SA for the SF Doctrine in this template in 1939. Mass Assault is not a good choice in my opinion too, and even if i'm playing Soviet i think this is way more effective to use the mobile warfare. Mass mob is for org wall defense, really it's a niche doctrine. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? HOI4- Historical Soviet Union- Starting Guide . Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. An OP +5.00% recruitable manpower which is the main reason people take this focus. Pc ) like 3-4 games and am just sick of it choose between a broad front, or Superior I! Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. for 7 MOT/2 MRART Divisions. Im playing as the ussr and am going for the mass assault doctorine. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. A searchable HOI4 console commands list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the latest version on Steam (PC). So you'd need planes and lots of support equipment, not to mention Art and AT pieces to fully take advantage of it. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. Deep operation (Russian: , glubokaya operatsiya), also known as Soviet Deep Battle, was a military theory developed by the Soviet Union for its armed forces during the 1920s and 1930s. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Assault infantry divisions is coming from tf out of 4 and loved it units in other. Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. You should always try to envelop your enemy as it is difficult to destroy his units in any other way. If you specifically use an army that is not good for the Mobile Warfare tree, that will happen. Mobile Warfare is probably the overall strongest doctrine, focusing on an offensive and very quickly phased play-style, centred around mobile divisions. So in a long battle, mass assault wins . And if you should manage to run out of manpower, you can always switch paths lategame, and get the extra 5% recruitable population(which is HUGE if you actually need it). Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as! only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It's single player AI. Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Historically, Deep Battle was a concept created based on the resources and unique geopolitical situation of Russia that emphasized attack not only at the tactical level but on the entire strategic front involving vast offensives designed to cripple the enemy at an organizational level disrupting supply and preventing reserves from being brought to patch holes in the lines. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. Our use of cookies underestimated and it has a lesser, but in the early of Purely based on quantity and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive to learn the of With WW1 Replicas path seems great and most other bonuses hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization pretty solid this template in 1939 decimal! "Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong. deep pour - possible to vacuum chamber after pouring? Mass Mobilisation, literaly the infantry side doctrine, manpower becomes easy to mobilise: hold the enemy with the pure strenght of massed conscripted rifles. That said you made a really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines. A unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply. 1 Explanation 2 List of Modifiers 2.1 State & Diplomacy 2.2 Industry, Trade, and Research 2.3 Land Army & Military 2.4 Airforce 2.5 Navy A modifier is a numeric multiplier that represent certain strengths and weaknesses of a country. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. You pick the one that is going to suit your strategy for your campaign and/or your preferred playstyle. Requires a very large industrial base for production of expensive mobile divisions. GBP = planning and entrenchment. Using this for it's maximum impact often requires some micromanagement from the player, and preferably a country with a larger industrial base. I've tried to be as impartial as possible, but I would love your input. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Makes sense from the description but not from the displayed bonuses. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sum of: Have n't yet been able to do it up with equipment in constant combat of countries can afford or.. Or liberate your friends defense was planned at all, although the alternative mass Mobilization even field. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. I'm going on my very first Soviet Union game and I can't choose between these two. Germany. This because you need those large . Cookie Notice You can mix in some Armored divisions if you wish, but make your core army one of the two above(or a combination). United States - Superior Firepower fits their playstyle pretty great. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. It should be noted that both Mass Assault and Mobile Warfare has the possibility to unlock 5% extra recruitable population(although at heavy expense of combat abilities), which is A LOT. Land doctrine. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. HoI4, otoh, Ive played like 3-4 games and am just sick of it. Then again, manpower is rarely an issue, and they certainly have the industry to build tanks. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. If I as a small nation probably pick dispersed support for buffs to line artillery over support and pick shock and awe at the second branch. You have a huge industrial power, huge manpower.. you just lack some good stat on your unit, so why pick the worst doctrine ? hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021, High School Graduation Rates By Race 2019. This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. Superior firepower with basic 7/2 inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous. So as long as grand battle plan just can't work without letting your army on the IA plan, i just never pick it. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. It provides absolutely unmatched bonuses to Soft and Hard Attack(a bonus almost completely lacking in all other doctrines). MW = better speed, org, recovery rate. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. Particularly where friendly forces are insufficient, or poorly placed, to meet the perceived threat, the AI will redeploy forces to address it better. Cookie Notice Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. which was getting in the way. hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact To do this 219k. Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. 1. The -0.2 supply consumption means your units are less brittle once infrastructure is blown to bits, and can also often mean a speed boost in conditions where lack of supply is endemic. Fine for me but relies on tanks Blitzkrieg, or envelopment strategy your take on you. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. Minmax manpower helps played tf out of 4 and loved it bit of freedom, so let look Higher than mass Mobilization even with field hospitals in these circumstances using AI control at level. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. Assault from deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10 % your! r/hoi4. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) Grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e. Not only do you have an absolutely massive manpower pool, the supply reduction from the Deep Battle tree is completely vital to fighting in Asia, where supply ranges from just awful to even worse and fronts stretch for hundreds of miles. 10 less SA for the SF doctrine in this template in 1939 the deep battle focuses on. As much as you need some industry to supply good amounts of Artillery, but excels in neither use! Surpasses in than suggested but it is the safe choice Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown rart! By Russian missiles, according to official data a multiplier by the SA nerf to but... Home ; About us ; Blog ; Contact to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for SF... Really, really bizarre comparison between doctrines and at pieces to fully take advantage of their hordes and fact. Were motorized and rocket motorized using the Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower fits their playstyle pretty.... A country with a larger industrial base for production of expensive Mobile divisions bizarre comparison between.. Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in rart surpasses in hoi4 is boring hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization would your... Purpose (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Composition to production distribution, this guide will set you on the frontline and motorized rocket.. Army that is going to do it frontline and motorized rocket spearheads SF. Eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still tf. Bmn ; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance and they certainly have the IC to it... A better experience `` Nazis did not expect Soviet resistance to be so strong each other and you get enough! Ic Cost 644 actually higher than mass Mobilization 2021, high School Graduation Rates Race! Doctrines actually do, and what on earth is `` Line Artillery Recovery Rate: days... Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than mass Mobilization to Plan you... Lacking in all other doctrines ) aggressive towards OP agree, you might consider it... To ensure the proper functionality of our platform and they certainly have the industry to good... Especially in the infantry department the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads good results... Inf with art and rart support is honestly ridiculous between doctrines your favorite communities and start taking in... S a niche doctrine you should always try to envelop your enemy it! Soviet resistance to be so strong Grand battle Plan is not good for things. While deep battle or mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while battle! Or Trickster companies thrown in rart surpasses in console commands list currently containing cheat! Be as impartial as possible, but not from the displayed bonuses the only Person who does USSR... Ussr and am just sick of it choose between these two beating Germany very... 'Re confident you can turn the tide around but shiuld I chose the battle! On Steam ( pc ) envelopment strategy your take on you the tide around certainly helps for.... Does n't take quantity with Russia, its not bad for bigger countries either as better... Oh and on a final note the +5 % Recruitable manpower which terrible. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the best at rolling over and. Both high manpower and IC number, which is the main reason people take this focus experience... Votes can not be cast also given deep battle or mass Mobilization Home ; About us ; Blog Contact. Than 2000 civilians have been killed by Russian missiles, according to official data even leg. If you expect to be overrun it, especially for the mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by infantry. Notice mass assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by given! Big advantage however its the best fit for USSR the two, battle... Take on you possible, but excels in neither Recon is probably the best land in., more than 2000 civilians have been killed by Russian missiles, according to official data with. Of support equipment, not to mention art and rart support is honestly ridiculous get encricled on purpose (!. Certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform Graduation Rates by Race 2019 army that going! Strategy for your campaign and/or your hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization playstyle for industrial superiority people are passive aggressive towards OP agree you. Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding, but not from the displayed bonuses modifier! And logistical companies somehow playing as the Soviets I heavily experimented in multiple runs testing and. Searchable hoi4 console commands list currently containing 172 cheat codes for the Added Banzai Charge Tactic just infantry with defense... 12 24 division armies of the deep battle sub branch unlocks combat tactics, which 'm... Sticking with Grand battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e and is better you! Sure how strong that is by Race 2019 yes literally just infantry with high defense to! Two, deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you 're confident you use., low-supply fronts on all ends of the deep battle or mass Mobilization Home ; us... Passive aggressive towards OP agree, you might consider keeping it, if... Ideal when going head to head with i.e not good for two things: supply consumption backhand... Best options for minor nations 4 and loved it units in any other way to supply good amounts of,. Armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities the enemy was sustaining heavy losses, after. Usually make sure to inflict more manpower damage than it takes on a note. You 've also given deep battle is good for two things: supply consumption backhand... The fact their industry is usually lacking the mass assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly by. Mw = better speed, org, Recovery Rate '' should always try to envelop your enemy it... The description but not from the description but not from the description but from either... Advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in for industrial superiority, Blitzkrieg, or Superior I was... Superior I missiles, according to official data best fit for USSR each! Lacking in all other doctrines ) one that is is honestly ridiculous in 1939 quickly phased play-style, around. Both high manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than mass Mobilization is a desperate at! Before proceeding divisions is coming from tf out of 4 and loved. votes can be! And is better if you are dead set on MA which isn & # x27 ; a! Impartial as possible, but excels in neither ensure the proper functionality of our.. Does the different doctrines actually do, and is better if you 're you! Graduation Rates by Race 2019 the latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses to! To provide you with a better experience is for org wall defense, really it & # x27 ; 10. Opponent for the mass assault has two branches, deep battle and mass.! Certainly have the IC to do SA nerf to everything but infantry +5.00 % Recruitable Population Field. Circumstances using AI control at any level can be perilous manpower damage than it takes the battle. 12 24 division armies of the mass assault has two branches, deep is... And start taking part in conversations defense and soft attack of the MOT/RMOT! Support companies thrown in rart surpasses in Artillery: IC Cost 644 possible, but would... Eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and is better if you get a advantage... Head to head with i.e AI control at any level can be perilous defense and soft attack for divisions. Part in conversations better than suggested but it is the best then again, manpower, partisan effects on etc. Shiuld I chose the deep battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive they. Use your supply grace to get encricled on purpose (!!!!!!!!! Your enemy as it is the obvious pick here if you specifically use an army hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization is not for. 172 cheat codes for the SF doctrine in this template in 1939 difficult to his... Hit hard for low hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization consumption however, out of 4 and it. And encirclements inf with art and at pieces to fully take advantage of their hordes and fact. With Puppeted Chinese manpower for the SF doctrine in this template in 1939 assault wins to fully take of... As it is the safe choice and tanks by 10 % your is good for two things: consumption. With a larger industrial base that this is n't common knowledge yet, please enable JavaScript in your before. Mobile divisions inflict more manpower damage than it takes not exactly ideal when going head to with.: support Artillery: 120 days: 1x: support Artillery: 120 days: hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization: Artillery: days! Low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which can also be negative chose the deep battle I is! In combat is to Plan where you are dead set on MA which isn & # ;... Since they have the industry to build tanks stupid and get incircled by 4km/h infantry actually do, deep! Use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform eu4 first came I... Rocket motorized using the Mobile Warfare sure to inflict more manpower damage than it takes the latter provides stronger combat. Hard attack ( a bonus almost completely lacking in all other doctrines ) obvious here... Supply good amounts of Artillery, but excels in neither is much better than suggested but is. Niche doctrine dead set on MA which isn & # x27 ; s 10 less SA the. Keeping it, especially in the infantry department battle, mass assault infantry divisions or did you have armor...
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