Dickerson 8014 8' 5wt. Reversed half wells cork grip. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. It's an Asian knockoff of a Dickerson 7012 4WT 7-0 taper. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. As you know line weight do vary so maybe your 8 wt is my 7 wt, or something like that? I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? Thanks. Unless that is what you are trying to achieve. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post It's really funny that a True Arc turns out to be a parabolic taper (how drunk were those guys?). If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. (Paul Blakley). Stress curves are an integral part of this process and have to be evaluated. Tell me about it please. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? The Dickersons that I've seen were similar. (Weren't they made in a garage?) The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. All of the tapers that I am finding appear to be using a Super Z. I am not wanting to start the Super Z vs. If you want the rod to have the same characteristics as before the change, the you must add some cane to the mid/butt of the rod to maintain the balance that was there before. I have not tried it with an 8 weight but I will as soon as I get back from Texas, ya'll. Don't leave us hangin' here with a sniper shot and leave ;-) (Mark Wendt), Truth be known, I prefer Payne to Dickerson. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. But if you really like Dickerson tapers (i sure do) then getting a good maker to whip up his version of that taper while using his personal cosmetics would be my first choice. Springcreek, the 8013 you have listed. Although it takes only 3 sizes to make a given size ferrule, he may have made a specialty set. If you like I can send you a compensated SLT and you will see what I mean. Garrison's are straight except for the last 15 inches which he "fudged" to accommodate one of the standard tip top sizes. They tend to be slightly faster action than the classic designs on which they were based. (Will Price). Conversely, the .202 is at the low end of fit for a 14/64. As Stephen points out if you can cast the rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together. Look at a graph of the rod dimensions. by Mike McGuire 06/16/16 23:29, Post The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. You may, or may not, as a rod designer, wish to achieve either, but probably not both! 40 0.180 146694 15 0.1115 No Question about it, John Pickard. (Mark Wendt), I checked the several places that I usually look for tapers and they all had the swell starting at 80". that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. This gives a quick, accurate impression as to what type of taper the rod is made from (straight, parabolic, compound, etc.) CSE made the ferrule for me. If so, which would work best as an all-around rod for lakes/ponds and steelhead/salmon? In the hands of a good caster, this taper will make a fly line do things that amaze. 30 .174 .322 7 wt 0.0790 10 .110 .254 I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. (Will McMurrey). The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. 48 .224 .375, I don't know how Banjo arrived at the measurements under the grip and reel seat. Following tests I no longer cook UHU. Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! 15 0.115 163502 20 0.131 154180 Maybe they were off a little but I have no reason to believe that if his 13 die were 13.5 he would not have marked it thusly. It looked fairly thin. 7613: 7'6" 2/2 5 wt. 0.241 (Peter Jones) I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. How would this feel? 75 0.279 126179 Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and fished. I don't think anyone fishes the same. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. Since it was a know Dickerson Taper and not a myth I set out to recreate how I think Lyle would of done it and it came out sweet. I could probably improve just by buying a new cheap file.. But you also have the opportunity to add or remove material any ware alone the length of that rod and doing so will have an taper specific effect on the casting/fishing characteristics of the rod. Dickerson R.W. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. Get information on services and amenities, security protocols, health and safety measures, and more. Easy casting and very versatile. 0.369 0.205 For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. Pt 0 is the butt side of the strips. 0.153 The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. I'll give you a bit of background on the question. Yes. 0.102 0.266 (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. 30 .216 .099 In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. I have built Russ' version, which I believe was posted yesterday, and I love it. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. The same can be said for the EC Powell taper in Hexrod (the 7'6" 2pc 6wt in the archives) which IS A B-9 TAPER; just look at the average slope from stations from the 80" mark thru 0". by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post I would say it's a strong 7 wt, but it should work well with a 8 WF. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. If you know something different about Dickerson's typical varnsh coat, make the appropriate adjustment. CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. 6-strip Tonkin bamboo 35 0.162 166451 by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post It's been my experience that a straight taper can be a very nice rod when designed correctly; for example a 4wt with a tip of 0.068 and a station rise of 0.013. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. 9 wt 0.0890. The long column to the right of that is what we think the raw cane would have measured, subtracting for varnish, and interpolating between our measurements so as to put everything back on 5-inch stations. Solid construction of suitable solidity involved unattractive weight penalties. $95.00 Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. On a theoretical straight line or linear taper the rod would load progressively down to the handle. Manchester, VT 05254 Different tools for doing different things. 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. The 8014 taper was devised later in Lyle's life and reflects both this ma (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Daryll Whitehead would be another good choice. The most interesting rods have a distinctive type of action, and a particular form and design, which is distinctive, and which seems to express a particular maker's vision. (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives (Robin Haywood). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. Parabolic is a marketing term and thus entirely meaningless in discussions on rod design. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. 60 0.242 .288@30 (Tim Pembroke). Can do a little better some days, but not always. An awful lot of fudging, especially as he could have made up tip rings quite easily. According to Hoagy Carmichael Jr. who filmed a documentary for Boston Public TV, the Payne Rod Co. made approximately 12,000 rods during it's existence. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. (Tom Peters), 0.066 Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, The Garrison tip would be .078, B-9 tip would be .059, and a fast .018/5" drop a tip of .035. (Chris Obuchowski). Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. Post 0.232 if you don't have ~ 1/64 drop over the ferrule it isn't a true taper. Then the part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo inside the male slide 'stepped down' to .187" ID, or 12/64. I've built this one which was posted to the rodmaker's listserv years ago. It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. (Robin Haywood), Why don't you design some roll casting ability into every rod? Cross Rods. Gillum Rods. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. 13/12. All but the parabolic and the hinge will have the same ferrule dimension so tips and butt sections can be interchanged to create any of the major taper variations. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. Are there specific numbers at the ferrule for, say, an 8013 where a 14/64's ferrule is used? In fact, I had great trouble casting the bloody thing. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. I have been gobs smacked many times when the customer turns around and says I like this one. Jim Payne. 5 .092 .242 The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. The part of the ferrule that fits over the bamboo on the tip section (male ferrule) had the same exact inside diameter of .221" INITIALLY! 10 0.097 In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. (Mark Dyba), Heh, nothing wrong with that. Hmmm. ferrules, such as Mr. Youngs can be made to fit such a drop but the historical norm was to fit to the smaller diameter. The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. It was considerably more effortless to use than my colleagues 8'6'' to 9' supposedly #4 carbons. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. 0.248 Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. (Steve Weiss), That's the rub isn't it? For example, the 8013 taper I use is .202 at the ferrule end of the tip, and .212 at the ferrule end of the butt. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. . I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. All rights reserved. Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. 5 0.0825 I do find that I am using much shorter rods than I did, I think its the American influence of this Listserv! Regarding the similarities and differences between the 7'6" and 8' Dickerson's. The rod I measured generally has 3/3 node spacing with the exception of two nodes falling right next to each other. On Corrib I used an 8'8''#4 nearly all the time, in fact I designed it for the job. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. 0 .326 .180 Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s, and Russ Gooding's Golden Witch version. 90 0.296 157251. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. Using too small a ferrule may be a factor. If you move it up to the mid section you might add a hinge that gets involved in the normal cast.. which is usually to be avoided. Rod Selection - Dickerson Tapers, < Home < Tips Area < Rod Selection < Dickerson Tapers, Can someone help me find the taper for the Dickerson 7613. .350@40 It also is fine on smaller streams. To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. The ID of the female ferrule where it accepts the male slide is .187", or 12/64. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. I have just finished reading your post regarding Straight Line Tapers and Straight horizontal Stress Curves and I must say that you as well as robin really do need a refresher course in Stress Curves. Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? As Will predicts, this is a very pleasant and easy rod to cast. CANE RODS Tips & Tapers by Ray Gould has another version that averages out the step down. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. 80 0.3 My intention is not to criticize you, but to try to reveal the "big picture" when looking at tapers and stress curves. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Or, if these are not good tapers for this, any suggestions as to which tapers would be? Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. In the original Ritz conception the rod, or the taper, was the tip. Regardless of what any book says about what size ferrule belongs on this or that rod, i look at the flat to flat measurements at the ferrule ends and make my own decision about what ferrule to use. Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. (Robin Haywood). 0.248 F E Thomas. June - October (Robin Haywood). 0.088 In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. The varnish is in good condition. 50 0.203 148510 I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod.
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