David Whitmer, the angel, the messenger, and two departments in Cumorah

The first time Orson Pratt and Joseph F. Smith (JFS) visited the Hill Cumorah near Palmyra, New York, was in September 1878. Orson was 68 years old and had testified about the Hill Cumorah many times but had never had the opportunity to see the hill or visit historic sites in the area.

At the time, Orson was Church Historian. President John Taylor had sent him and JFS on a fact-finding mission to sites of early Church history. An overview of their trip is here:

https://rsc.byu.edu/joseph-f-smith-reflections-man-his-times/excavating-early-mormon-history-1878-history-fact-finding

The two men were traveling together from Utah to New York City. They sent reports of their trip to the Deseret News that were published as installments. The report of their visit to Cumorah is here:  

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/MStar/id/27192

In the following installment, they discuss their interview with David Whitmer on 7–8 September 1878. This is the interview in which David Whitmer describes the angel who showed them the plates, surrounded by glorious light. Later, he describes the divine messenger, a heavy-set old man in a brown wool suit, who was taking the abridged plates to Palmyra. These were unmistakably different individuals.

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/MStar/id/27175

David explains it was this same messenger who showed plates to his mother, Mary Whitmer. (She said he called himself “Brother Nephi.”) These were the plates Joseph translated in Fayette, which means they were the original plates of Nephi (the so-called “small plates.” 

Notice that David saw both the angel and the messenger and never said or implied they were the same person.*

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Orson Pratt died on October 3, 1881 at the age of 70 (he was born September 19, 1811, in Hartford, New York.) He was the last member of the original Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to die. 

The next year, The Contributor posthumously published an article written by Orson about the Hill Cumorah. You can read it here:

https://archive.org/details/contributor0312eng/page/356/mode/2up

This is a reprint of an article Orson published in the Millennial Star in 1866.

https://cdm15999.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/MStar/id/11828

In this article, Orson explains there were two departments in the hill of Cumorah.

The Hill Cumorah is situated in western New York between the villages of Palmyra and Canandaigua about four miles from the former. It is celebrated as the ancient depository of the sacred gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. Cumorah was the name by which the hill was designated in the days of the Prophet Moroni who deposited the plates about four hundred and twenty years after the birth of Christ.

The prophet Mormon, the father of Moroni, had been entrusted with all the sacred records of his forefathers engraved on metallic plates. New plates were made by Mormon on which he wrote, from the more ancient books, an abridged history of the nation, incorporating therewith many revelations, prophecies, the Gospel, &c. 

These new plates were given to Moroni to finish the history. And all the ancient plates Mormon deposited in Cumorah, about three hundred and eighty-four years after Christ. When Moroni, about thirty-six years after, made the deposit of the book entrusted book entrusted to him, he was, without doubt inspired to select a department of the hill separate from the great sacred depository of the numerous volumes hid up by his father. 

The particular place in the hill, where Moroni secreted the book, was revealed, by the angel, to the Prophet Joseph Smith, to whom the volume was delivered in September, A.D. 1827. But the grand repository of all the numerous records of the ancient nations of the western continent, was located in another department of the hill, and its contents under the charge of holy angels, until the day should come for them to be transferred to the sacred temple of  Zion.

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*Even though David said the published Testimony of the Three Witnesses “is strictly and absolutely true,” we have some current LDS scholars who, because of M2C, teach that the angel and the old man were the same person: Moroni. 

Yes, they are teaching their students (and the world) that resurrected beings have the ability to shape shift.

Accordingly, I offer the revised Testimony of the Three Witnesses:

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an aged man, about 5’10”, with a long white beard, around 70 years old and wearing a wool suit, brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

Source: Letter VII

One thought on “David Whitmer, the angel, the messenger, and two departments in Cumorah

  1. I believe the final repository of all the Jaredite and Nephite records was somewhere in the hill Ramah/Cumorah and separate from Moroni’s cement and stone box. This site was also the LAST hiding place for Ether.

    The 24 plates found by the people of Limhi was Ether’s abridgement of at least 1600 or 1700 years or more of Jaredite records. The Mulekites must have arrived in the land of Promise AFTER the 4-year period when all the Jaredites were gathered for the final battles.

    In earlier years, Ether may have had a different hiding place for himself and all the Jaredite records. The various battles seem to move around to different locations throughout the land. Ether didn’t have any friends. There was a 4-year period when all the Jaredites seemed to gather to 1 of 2 camps before the final battles. Were all of the Jaredites records already gathered to the final resting place or were they moved to the final resting place during those 4 years? Remember that the Nephite records were moved at least once from the hill Shim to the likely final resting place at the hill Cumorah.

    Ether 13 states,

    13 And I was about to write more, but I am forbidden; but great and marvelous were the prophecies of Ether; but they esteemed him as naught, and cast him out; and he ahid himself in the cavity of a rock by day, and by night he went forth viewing the things which should come upon the people.

    14 And as he dwelt in the cavity of a rock he made the aremainder of this record, viewing the destructions which came upon the people, by night.

    18 Wherefore, it came to pass that in the first year that Ether dwelt in the cavity of a rock, there were many people who were slain by the sword of those asecret combinations, fighting against Coriantumr that they might obtain the kingdom.

    19 And it came to pass that the sons of Coriantumr fought much and bled much.

    20 And in the second year the word of the Lord came to Ether, that he should go and aprophesy unto bCoriantumr that, if he would repent, and all his household, the Lord would give unto him his kingdom and spare the people—

    21 Otherwise they should be destroyed, and all his household save it were himself. And he should only live to see the fulfilling of the prophecies which had been spoken concerning aanother people receiving the land for their inheritance; and Coriantumr should receive a burial by them; and every soul should be destroyed save it were bCoriantumr.

    22 And it came to pass that Coriantumr repented not, neither his household, neither the people; and the wars ceased not; and they sought to akill Ether, but he fled from before them and hid again in the cavity of the rock.

    I think at least one of Ether’s hiding places was the repository of all the Jaredite records (hill Ramah) which Ether abridged into 24 plates. Ether 15:33 states

    “And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.” It would seem logical that the location where Limhi’s people found the 24 plates and the Urim and Thummim was likely at the Hill Ramah/Cumorah, but in a place that didn’t reveal the repository of all the Jaredite and Nephite records. They must have also been hidden with the Urim and Thummim and breastplate which Mosiah used to translate the large stone that was brought to him. Coriantumr probably created the engravings on the stone during the 9 months that he lived with the people of Zarahemla (Mulekites).

    In spite of the discussion above, it isn’t clear to me of the EXACT sequence of events. I need to take a deeper dive to identify the chronology.

    https://youtu.be/FE29oIkn8b4 was published by Book of Mormon Central in 2016. It describes Royal Skousen and an 1837 change to the Book of Mormon (changed from King Benjamin to Mosiah who had the gift of interpretation). Did King Benjamin die BEFORE or AFTER the 24 plates were translated? Adding to the confusion is the fact that there were 2 kings named Mosiah over 3 generations. Here are some questions.

    Was the large stone (Omni 1:20) translated before the 24 plates or after? It seems clear to me that the large stone was translated BEFORE the 24 plates. How did Mosiah #1 get the Urim and Thummim. I had always assumed that it was likely stored with the 24 plates found by the people of Limhi? In addition to the 24 plates, the people of Limhi retrieved breastplates and rusty swords. Maybe Mosiah # 1 only used the Gift and Power of God to translate and not the Nephite Interpreters. No, because Omni 1:12 makes it clear that it was Mosiah #1 who translated the large stone and Ammon knew about the large stone translation and he told King Limhi that Mosiah #1 could translate because he had the Nephite Interpreters. How did Mosiah #1 get the Nephite Interpreters? Did Coriantumr deliver the interpreters to the people of Zarahemla and leave the 24 plates to be found by the people of Zarahemla? That doesn’t make sense to me.

    We know king Benjamin lived 3 years AFTER he appointed his son Mosiah to be king. (Mosiah 6:5).

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