Author: Jonathan Neville

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We Aren’t God’s Only People

There’s an awesome article on the splash page of lds.org right now at this link:

https://www.lds.org/blog/advice-for-the-younger-missionary-me-we-arent-gods-only-people?cid=HP_TH_27-10-2016_dOCS_fBLOG_xLIDyL2-3_

The author, Samuel B. Hislop, writes about “cultivating “holy envy” for other faiths,” noting the contributions of other faiths to our understanding of God. He writes,

“My life’s journey has directed my gaze outward to learn from the leaders and followers of other faiths. I’ve come to appreciate what Swedish theologian Krister Stendahl (1921–2008) called “holy envy”—the ability to admire elements and teachings in other faiths. Our fellow believers see things differently and don’t express their views in the same way we do, and I often find great value in this.”

I highly recommend the article. It led me to a thought relevant to Book of Mormon consensus.
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Brother Hislop quotes this:

“When we see virtuous qualities in men, we should always acknowledge them, let their understanding be what it may in relation to creeds and doctrine; for all men are, or ought to be free. … This doctrine I do most heartily subscribe to and practice” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 345–46).

Those pages are in the chapter in the manual titled “Living with Others in Peace and Harmony.” You can find it here. It is an extract from a letter Joseph wrote to Gen. James Arlington Bennet. Eliza R.Snow copied the letter into Joseph’s journal. The citation is History of the Church, 5:156, which you can find here. Or, you can read the original source in the Joseph Smith Papers, here.

[Historical note: For those interested in Church history, the link to JSP starts with the famous objection by Gen. James Arlington Bennet to the name of the other Nauvoo newspaper, the Wasp. Bennet wrote, “Mildness should characterise every thing that comes from Nauvoo…” Then he adds, “My respects to your brother its Editor.” Those of you who have read The Lost City of Zarahemla know how this is important.]
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Here is the entire section of Joseph’s letter to Gen. Bennet, dated September 8th, 1842:

You speak also of Elder Lucian Foster, President of the Church in New-York, in high terms: and of Dr. John Bernhisel of New-York. These men I am acquainted with by information; and it warms my heart, to know that you speak well of them; and as you say, could be willing to associate with them forever, if you never joined their church, or acknowledged their faith. 

This is a good principle; for when we see virtuous qualities in men, we should always acknowledge them, let their understanding be what it may in relation to creeds and doctrine; for all men are, or ought to be free; possessing unalienable rights, and the high, and noble qualifications of the laws of nature and of self-preservation; to think, and act, and say as they please; while they maintain a due respect to the rights and privileges of all other creatures; infringing upon none. 

This doctrine I do most heartily subscribe to, and practice; the testimony of mean men, to the contrary, notwithstanding. But Sir, I will assure you, that my soul soars far above all the mean and grovelling dispositions of men that are dispos’d to abuse me and my character; I therefore shall not dwell upon that subject.

In relation to those men you speak of, referred to above; I will only say that there are thousands of such men in this church; who, if a man is found worthy to associate with, will call down the envy of a mean world, because of their high and noble demeanor; and it is with unspeakable delight that I contemplate them as my friends & brethren. I love them with a perfect love; and I hope they love me, and have no reason to doubt but they do.
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I hope this is the spirit in which we all view one another as we work through the various issues related to Book of Mormon historicity/geography and, one day, reach a consensus that will enable us to flood the Earth with the Book of Mormon like never before.

Source: Book of Mormon Concensus

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A thought experiment

A lot of people, not just LDS scholars and educators but ordinary members of the Church, are emotionally attached to their ideas about Book of Mormon geography. I empathize because I felt the same way for decades about the Mesoamerican theory.

So here’s a thought experiment to consider.
First, set aside your preconceptions. Thought experiments don’t work if our minds are cluttered. We need to start with a blank slate.
Second, pretend for a moment that Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith knew that the Hill Cumorah of Mormon 6:6 was the same hill where Joseph obtained the plates; i.e., the hill in New York near his home. 
Maybe they knew because they had visited Mormon’s records repository in the hill, as they told Brigham Young and others.
Maybe they knew because Moroni told them. 
Or maybe they had a revelation about it. After all, they were both apostles. Joseph was President and Oliver Assistant President of the Church. They didn’t record everything they knew, as we know from Joseph Smith-History, 1:73-4:
 73 Immediately on our coming up out of the water after we had been baptized, we experienced great and glorious blessings from our Heavenly Father. No sooner had I baptized Oliver Cowdery, than the Holy Ghost fell upon him, and he stood up and prophesied many things which should shortly come to pass. And again, so soon as I had been baptized by him, I also had the spirit of prophecy, when, standing up, I prophesied concerning the rise of this Church, and many other things connected with the Church, and this generation of the children of men. We were filled with the Holy Ghost, and rejoiced in the God of our salvation.
 74 Our minds being now enlightened, we began to have the scriptures laid open to our understandings, and the true meaning and intention of their more mysterious passages revealed unto us in a manner which we never could attain to previously, nor ever before had thought of. 
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Continuing with this thought experiment, if Cumorah is in New York, does the rest of the description in the text fit?
Step 3 in the experiment is to see if you can work it out.
Again, throw out all your preconceptions and re-read the text.
I realize that because of Mesomania it’s nearly impossible to jettison the maps and illustrations you’ve seen your whole life, but try. 
You might be surprised at what you discover.
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The irony of this thought experiment is that it shouldn’t really be an experiment at all. Latter-day Saints believe everything Joseph and Oliver told us except for what they wrote in Letter VII. We write entire books about one-off statements recorded in someone’s journal, such as the “most correct book” comment that wasn’t even a quotation. 
But unlike these one-off statements, Oliver’s letters, including Letter VII, have been republished multiple times. LDS scholars and educators accept everything in them except what they wrote about the Hill Cumorah.
If you know the explanation for that, you’ll figure this out soon enough.
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One stumbling block for some scholars is that Joseph didn’t identify the hill as Cumorah in Joseph Smith-History. There’s a good reason why he might have chosen not to, but the objection assumes Joseph wrote the history in the first place.
He did not.
At most, he read it. We don’t even know if he made corrections to it, but we assume he approved it on some level.
See if you can think of a reason or two he might not have named the hill in that history.

Source: Book of Mormon Concensus

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In their own words

I think most members of the Church don’t know what LDS scholars are actually teaching.

We’re about to rectify that.
Starting today, my youtube channel features two series. One is titled “In Their Own Words” that shows you exactly what is being taught. The other is “How to find Mesomania in…” that shows you how to assess the various scholarly sources on the Internet.
It’s an eye-opener, for sure.
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Thanks to Mesomania, nearly every member of the Church has had Meosamerica imprinted on his/her mind from childhood. The Arnold Friberg paintings are a big part of this, but the Mesoamerican theory has been taught from Primary through Institute. It’s what is still being taught at BYU campuses, albeit not as overtly as in the past. Mesomania has even been featured in the Ensign.
This is not the fault of the thousands of faithful, diligent teachers in the Church. For starters, none of them have been taught about what Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery actually wrote about the Hill Cumorah in Letter VII.
Go to lds.org and google “Letter VII” and you’ll see what I mean.
[You’ll get one result from the August 1990 Ensign in connection with Oliver Cowdery’s discussion of Moroni’s visit. You have to go to the bottom of the article and click on “Show references” to see it. It’s in footnote 4, and it’s a reference to the Messenger and Advocate. Unless you know how to do Church history research (and I show you how on youtube, here), you’ll never find the original. But you can search for “Letter VII” in the Joseph Smith papers and read it directly from Joseph’s own history!]
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For whatever reason, LDS scholars and CES staff have successfully conveyed a false impression that the Church endorses a Mesoamerican setting, to the point that when faithful members of the Church want to discuss a North American setting, they are silenced, shunned, and ridiculed.
This behavior is unacceptable.
I’m going to provide some “ammunition” for those who are being treated this way.
If Mesoamerican advocates want to promote their ideas, fine. But they need to be up front in what they’re really teaching, and they need to stop treating alternative perspectives–especially the statements of Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith–as if they are apostate.
In fact, I favor more exposure of the Mesoamerican position. I’d like everyone in the Church to compare the North American setting to the Mesoamerican setting. That’s why I put a comparison table in my book, Mesomania. And on my consensus blog, here.
I think most members of the Church will be shocked to discover what has been going on for the last few decades in the academic realm of Book of Mormon geography.
It’s not just that so many LDS scholars and CES staff have explicitly rejected Joseph Fielding Smith’s views on this issue. I’m all in favor of academic freedom; people can believe and teach whatever they want.
But anyone who teaches in the Church has a very serious responsibility. Anyone who teaches the Book of Mormon and doesn’t at least inform students about Letter VII, IMO, is doing the students a disservice.
Aside from the suppression of that important Church history, it is where the two-Cumorahs theories are leading the teachers–and their students–that is the more serious problem.
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 In addition to many websites, here are some of the books and articles we’re going to go through.

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Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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CES and Mesomania

There’s a long post about CES on my Mesomania blog here. I point out that there is a lingering problem of Mesomania in the CES program that I hope can be rectified soon–and quickly.

I make three specific suggestions to CES that I hope will be considered.

Those of you who work for CES, let me know what you think. 

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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Thoughts on contention

The topic of Book of Mormon geography can raise differences among people. Let’s take it as a given that most people say they want to avoid contention, argument, debate, etc. This applies to their work, family, church, recreation, and other activities.

Jude describes what we should contend for:

Jude 1:3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

That’s the kind of contention that I’ve tried to conduct on this blog, my other blogs, and my articles and books.

Then there is another kind of contention that I seek to avoid:

3 Nephi 11:29-30
For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
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Based on these and other passages, IMO it is important to contend for the faith and what is right, but it’s just as important to do so without anger. 

Readers of this blog know that I think it’s fun to have these exchanges. It’s definitely frustrating that this whole thing about Cumorah not being in New York has gone on for so long, perpetuated by LDS scholars and educators, but there’s no reason to get angry about it.

What’s done is done.

It’s up to us to take the initiative to fix it, all without anger. .

So when I write a piece titled “Fun with…” I mean that. There’s no anger. We can all enjoy the discussion and hopefully move toward the day when we’ll all see eye-to-eye.

And we can focus on the meaning of the text and it’s origin, making us all better people.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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Flooding the Earth with the Book of Mormon

In October 1988, President Benson gave the famous address titled “Flooding the Earth with the Book of Mormon.” Here’s a link: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1988/10/flooding-the-earth-with-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

It’s hard to believe that was 28 years ago. A lot of progress has been made, for sure. But there remain obstacles.

Among other things, he said,

“I challenge all of us to prayerfully consider steps that we can personally take to bring this new witness for Christ more fully into our own lives and into a world that so desperately needs it.”

Many members of the Church are doing their part to make this happen. I believe the LDS scholars and educators are doing their part in many ways, but there is an enormous impediment, IMO. It’s one I’ve had to deal with for years.

By continuing to promote the Mesoamerican setting (or an abstract setting), LDS scholars and educators are causing members to become confused and disturbed in their faith. 

For many people, the message of the Book of Mormon is powerful enough to overcome this confusion. But for others, the confusion distracts from that message and leads to the loss of faith we’ve been warned about.

I don’t see how we can realize the vision President Benson set forth as long as our scholars and educators insist our prophets and apostles are wrong about something as basic as the Hill Cumorah in New York.

It’s not that geography, by itself, is the stumbling block. Instead, the problem is the inconsistency of claiming to support the prophets and apostles, while also saying their firm, consistent, declarative statements on this issue, spanning over 150 years, are wrong.

Mesomania causes confusion to every investigator who sees the artwork depicting jungles, Mayans, and stone pyramids, and then reads the text only to discover none of these things are in there. It’s the disparity between raised expectations and reality that impedes acceptance of the Book of Mormon. That same disparity leads once faithful members to question, and in too many cases, lose their faith.

IMO, we won’t be flooding the Earth with the Book of Mormon until we reach unity in understanding it, which means reaching unity in supporting what the prophets and apostles have said from the beginning about the location of Cumorah.

Cumorah was important enough for Mormon and Moroni to mention it by name. It’s the touchstone between the ancient past and the here and now. It’s the pin in the map that tells us the location of the promised land, the covenant nation, the Lamanites whose promises are yet to be fulfilled, and so much more.

I urge all LDS scholars and educators, as well as students, to reconsider your views on this point. If you don’t accept the New York location of Cumorah, ask yourself why not. Then ask yourself again. And again.

The answer might surprise you.

Source: Book of Mormon Concensus

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Letter VII in the Improvement Era

In 1899, Joseph F. Smith was the Editor of the Improvement Era. He was also Second Counselor in the First Presidency under President Wilford Woodruff. He had been an Apostle for 33 years by that point, and had served as a counselor in the First Presidency under both Brigham Young and John Taylor.

The July 1899 issue of the Improvement Era published Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII.

Here’s the link to the cover page:
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera29unse#page/n0/mode/2up.

Those who have been following this blog know that Letter VII was published in 1835 in the Messenger and Advocate, in 1841 in the Times and Seasons, and also in 1841 in the Gospel Reflector. It was published as part of a special pamphlet in England in 1844. Joseph Smith personally directed his scribes to copy it into his history as part of his life story.

Short of adding it to the Pearl of Great Price, what more could the leaders of the Church do to make sure everyone knew about Cumorah in New York?

And yet, modern LDS scholars and educators completely ignore Letter VII because it contradicts their theories about two Cumorahs and the Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon.
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Of Oliver Cowdery’s eight letters on Church history, Letter I is the best known because it was included in the Pearl of Great Price. But Letter VII and the other letters were published multiple times in Church magazines.

Think of how beneficial it would be to have it republished in today’s Ensign.

In this case, we have a counselor in the First Presidency publishing Letter VII in the Improvement Era. This isn’t just a run-of-the-mill member of the First Presidency, either. He served in the First Presidency under 4 Presidents of the Church before becoming President himself.

Critics might point out that Joseph F. Smith was only 5 years old when his father, Hyrum, and his uncle, Joseph, were murdered at Carthage. Presumably he had not heard, first-hand, anything about Book of Mormon geography from Joseph Smith himself.

Maybe he unilaterally decided to republish Letter VII. Maybe Wilford Woodruff didn’t know he was going to reprint Letter VII. Maybe John Taylor and Brigham Young never discussed Cumorah with Joseph F. Smith.

Maybe he was acting on his own.

Or maybe he consulted with the President of the Church and obtained Woodruff’s blessing to republish Letter VII.

The fact is, Joseph F. Smith did republish Letter VII. And his son, Joseph Fielding Smith, cited Letter VII when he warned about the spiritual dangers of the two-Cumorahs theory that LDS scholars and educators have embraced.

Just more food for thought.
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Here’s the link to page 652, where Letter VII appeared:
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera29unse#page/652/mode/2up

The article continues on this page:
https://archive.org/stream/improvementera5307unse#page/n61/mode/2up

Source: Letter VII

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More prophets and apostles for LDS scholars to reject

Current LDS scholars and educators who teach a Mesoamerican setting (or a Baja, Panama, Peru, or even a hypothetical or abstract setting) are rejecting every prophet and apostle who has ever addressed the location of Cumorah.

This scholarly approach is astonishing and not well known among active members of the Church, but it is well known among detractors. It’s a major cause of confusion and loss of faith, just as Joseph Fielding Smith warned.

I’m curious what the apostles and prophets would have to say to convince these LDS scholars and educators to change their minds about Cumorah and accept the New York setting, once and for all.

Seriously, this situation reminds me of the children of Israel rejecting their prophets.

I’ve pointed out many times that modern LDS scholars and educators reject not only Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII, but also Joseph Fielding Smith’s warnings about the “two-Cumorahs” theory. You can see this for yourself in their publications (including on FairMormon, here, where the display of sophistry is breathtaking).

It’s one thing to say the Church has no official position on Book of Mormon geography, and quite another to say that every latter-day prophet and apostle who has addressed the location of Cumorah was wrong.

There is plenty of room for discussion about Book of Mormon geography beyond Cumorah, but the Cumorah pin has been firmly placed in New York from the beginning through at least 1978.

I’ve discussed this on my youtube channel, as well.

Joseph Fielding Smith first made his warning in the 1930s, about the time LDS scholars were embracing the idea that the “real Cumorah” of Mormon 6:6 was in southern Mexico.

He repeated his warning in the 1950s when we was President of the Quorum of the Twelve.

No matter. The LDS scholars say he didn’t know what he was talking about. As recently as last week, they continue to take this position.

In other words, if you (or your children or grandchildren) are being educated at a BYU campus or by CES and the topic of Book of Mormon geography comes up, they will almost certainly be taught that Cumorah is not really in New York, that Oliver Cowdery was speculating and lying, and that Joseph Fielding Smith didn’t know what he was talking about.

I’ve discussed that more than enough on this blog. You all know this by now.

And the LDS scholars and educators freely admit it. They’re proud of it!
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Here’s more food for thought.

When Orson Pratt added the footnotes to the Book of Mormon in the 1879 edition, he correctly noted that the locations of Zarahemla, Lehi’s landing, and other sites were not known, but were believed or thought to be in the places he mentioned.

Except he declared unequivocally that Cumorah was in New York. This is consistent with what Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and others taught from the outset.

Our LDS scholars are not only rejecting Joseph Smith and his contemporaries, along with Joseph Fielding Smith.

They are also rejecting more modern apostles, including Marion G. Romney and Mark E. Peterson.
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President Marion G. Romney. In the October 1975 General Conference, Marion G. Romney, then First Counselor in the First Presidency, stated that Cumorah was in New York. Here’s the link where you can watch or read his talk: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/americas-destiny?lang=eng

“In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the “hill Cumorah.” (Morm. 6:6.) On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago—events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation.

“You who are acquainted with the Book of Mormon will recall that during the final campaign of the fratricidal war between the armies led by Shiz and those led by Coriantumr “nearly two millions” of Coriantumr’s people had been slain by the sword; “two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.” (Ether 15:2.)

“As the conflict intensified, all the people who had not been slain—men “with their wives and their children” (Ether 15:15)—gathered about that hill Cumorah (see Ether 15:11)….

“Thus perished at the foot of Cumorah the remnant of the once mighty Jaredite nation, of whom the Lord had said, “There shall be none greater … upon all the face of the earth.” (Ether 1:43.)

“As I contemplated this tragic scene from the crest of Cumorah and viewed the beautiful land of the Restoration as it appears today, I cried in my soul, “How could it have happened?”
…
“The tragic fate of the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations is proof positive that the Lord meant it when he said that this “is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.” (Ether 2:9.)”

[NOTE: those who don’t know much about Pres. Romney should read a bio. He was a lawyer and he was widely recognized as a Book of Mormon scholar and spoke about the topic often in General Conference. The wikipedia entry is here.]
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Mark E. Peterson. In the October 1978 General Conference, Elder Mark E. Peterson reiterated that Cumorah was in New York. Here’s the link you can watch or read: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1978/10/the-last-words-of-moroni?lang=eng

“Moroni’s father was commander of the armies of this ancient people, known as Nephites. His name was Mormon. The war of which we speak took place here in America some four hundred years after Christ. (See Morm. 6.)

“As the fighting neared its end, Mormon gathered the remnant of his forces about a hill which they called Cumorah, located in what is now the western part of the state of New York.

“Their enemies, known as Lamanites, came against them on this hill….

“When finished with the record, Moroni was to hide it up in that same Hill Cumorah which was their battlefield. It would come forth in modern times as the Book of Mormon, named after Moroni’s father, the historian who compiled it.”

[NOTE: those who don’t know much about Mark E. Peterson should read a bio. He was a prolific author. The wikipedia entry is here.]
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I hope every Latter-day Saint will take the time to recognize what is going on here. Current LDS scholars and educators actually think these prophets and apostles didn’t know what they were talking about. 

On my youtube channel, I’ll show you how to do your own research and how to respond to the scholars and educators who continue to advocate these non-New York theories, because I don’t want you to take my word for it. Look up the references I’ve given in my books and blogs. Make your own decisions about this topic.

As for me, I have no problem accepting what all of these prophets and apostles have said about Cumorah because it fits so well with the text and all the accounts in Church history–not to mention the archaeology, anthropology, geology, geography, etc.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars