Author: Jonathan Neville

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Spring Break at Cumorah

Thousands of American college kids go to Cozumel and Cancun on spring break. Here’s some great info for those interested: http://www.destinationclubbing.com/thematics/springbreak-cancun.aspx

“Spring Break Cancun has become one of the top clubbing destinations in 2017 in the world! Spring Break Cancun is a must, but it does have a price. For example, one of the most famous hotels is Grand Oasis Cancun : with the largest swimming pool in South America , private acces to the beaches of Cancun, and the fun is at its climax: the pools and hotel beach turn into a big dance floor all day long, inviting artists and renowned DJs.”

Here’s what’s awesome: these kids don’t know they are visiting “Book of Mormon Lands!”

(Actually, that would come as a surprise to Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, Mosiah, Alma and the rest, but they’re not around to object.)

If you’d like to relax in “Book of Mormon Lands,” here’s your guide to a great time:

http://bountifultravel.com/book-of-mormon-tours/

Source: About Central America

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General Conference preparation

One way to prepare for General Conference is to re-read favorite conference addresses from the past. I’ve posted a few on the bookofmormonwars blog lately.

Another way is to study the scriptures about how the Lord works with the prophets to teach the people. Each of the standard works explains different aspects of this process.

An interesting example is D&C 77, online here. This is a series of questions and answers. I think of it as a model for how we can ask the Lord for understanding of the scriptures when we read them. It’s also an example of how prophetic leaders can help answer questions we may have as we listen to General Conference.

One verse in particular stands out.
__________________

6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
__________________

I looked up this verse in the scriptural index to General Conference and found the passage I highlighted in bold has never been quoted, but it was paraphrased three times.

Orson Pratt said, “We know that it was not six thousand years from the creation to the birth of Christ. How do we know this? God has told us in new revelation that this earth is destined to continue its temporal existence for seven thousand years, and that at the commencement of the seventh thousand, he will cause seven angels to sound their trumpets.”

Orson F. Whitney said, “But not only was John shown what should occur after the time in which he was living, but he was shown what had already taken place; not as the imperfect records of profane history have given it to us, but he saw it typified in its fullness. The events of the seven thousand years of the world’s temporal existence passed before him, like the scenes of a mighty panorama. If you will read the book which he left, you will there find portrayed symbolically each of the seven thousand years.”

Sterling W. Will said, “Then in programming the world’s mortal or temporal existence, God gave it a time allotment of 7,000 years (see D&C 77:6-7), 1,000 years to represent each of the seven days of creation. The first 4,000 years began at the fall of Adam and ended at the birth of Christ. To this have been added the 1967 years that have passed since that time, so that on the divine calendar we are now living in the year of the world 1967, which is the late Saturday evening of the world’s history. This divine time table as well as God’s signs of the times indicate that the earth’s Sabbath, which is the seventh 1,000-year period, is about to be ushered in.”


__________________

I’ll discuss this more in upcoming blog posts.

Source: Letter VII

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Conference Classics – President Anthony W. Ivins

The Hill Cumorah by President Anthony W. Ivins

Anthony W. Ivins

On April 6, 1928, President Anthony W. Ivins of the First Presidency spoke in General Conference about the Hill Cumorah in New York, which had recently been purchased by the Church.

One of my favorite parts is when he explains that Mormon deposited all of the Nephite records in the Hill Cumorah in New York, and that these records will come forth some day and be published to the world.
“All of these incidents to which I have referred, my brethren and sisters, are very closely associated with this particular spot in the state of New York. Therefore I feel, as I said in the beginning of my remarks, that the acquisition of that spot of ground is more than an incident in the history of the Church; it is an epoch—an epoch which in my opinion is fraught with that which may become of greater interest to the Latter-day Saints than that which has already occurred. We know that all of these records, all the sacred records of the Nephite people, were deposited by Mormon in that hill. That incident alone is sufficient to make it the sacred and hallowed spot that it is to us…. Those additional records will come forth, they will be published to the world, that the children of our Father may be converted to faith in Christ, our Lord and Redeemer, through obedience to the doctrines which he taught.”
He introduced his remarks by emphasizing his preparation:

“Reference has been made by the President of the acquisition by the Church of the spot of ground in the state of New York known as the hill Cumorah. It appears to me to be an event of such importance that I desire to devote the short time which is at my disposal this morning to a discussion of that subject. There have been some differences of opinion in regard to it, and in order that I might be correct in the statements which I make I have this morning finished a short manuscript which I would like to read—the first time. I believe, in my experience, that I have ever addressed a congregation in this manner, and I do it for the purpose stated.”

You can read the entire talk on Gospelink here, or on archive.org here.

President Ivins spoke about the “final disposition” of the records.

THE FINAL DISPOSITION
So far as we have information, this was the final disposition which was made of the records given into the custody of Mormon, from the plates of Nephi. This latter, with the addition of the Book of Ether, and the few chapters written by Moroni, constitute the record contained in the Book of Mormon.
All of the remaining records, Mormon tells us, were deposited in the hill Cumorah.
That the hill Cumorah and the hill Ramah are identical is shown by the following: Moroni, in the Book of Ether, says:
“And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz [he is telling the story now of this first people who came to the American continent from the Tower of Babel] that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath. And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.”
The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3 definitely established the following facts: 
That the hill Cumorah, and the hill Ramah are identical. 
That it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites fought their great last battles. 
That it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his son, Moroni.
We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them.

I note two significant points here that I’ll write more about next week. First, Mormon deposited all the sacred records except his abridgment into the records repository in the hill Cumorah. Second, that the hill in New York was the location of the depository.

President Ivins continued:

AWAITING THE TIME
This sealed portion of the record which came into the hands of Joseph Smith but was not translated by him so far as we are aware, with the abridgment made by Mormon, the record of Ether, and the other sacred records which were deposited in the hill Cumorah still lie in their repository, awaiting the time when the Lord shall see fit to bring them forth, that they may be published to the world.
Whether they have been removed from the spot where Mormon deposited them we cannot tell, but this we know, that they are safe under the guardianship of the Lord, and that they will be brought forth at the proper time, as the Lord has declared they should be, for the benefit and blessing of the people of the world, for his word never fails.
According to the Book of Mormon, many hundreds of thousands of people fell in battle around this hill and in the immediate vicinity. It was here that two once-powerful nations were exterminated so far as their national existence was concerned. It was here that these nations gathered together for their last great struggles.
UNTIL THE LAST
These people were human, as we are; they carried with them their most precious possessions until the last, and when the end of the mighty struggle came and the result was in doubt, they hid them away in order that they might not fall into the hands of their enemies.
Without doubt, these treasures lie concealed today, some of them, at least, to be brought forth in the not-distant future. How soon this will be we do not know, but this is certain, we are more than a century nearer that time than we were at the time when Joseph Smith took from their resting place, in the hill Cumorah, the plates from which he translated the contents of the Book of Mormon.
All of these incidents to which I have referred, my brethren and sisters, are very closely associated with this particular spot in the state of New York. Therefore I feel, as I said in the beginning of my remarks, that the acquisition of that spot of ground is more than an incident in the history of the Church; it is an epoch—an epoch which in my opinion is fraught with that which may become of greater interest to the Latter-day Saints than that which has already occurred. We know that all of these records, all the sacred records of the Nephite people, were deposited by Mormon in that hill. That incident alone is sufficient to make it the sacred and hallowed spot that it is to us. I thank God that, in a way which seems to have been providential, it has come into the possession of the Church.
I bear witness to you that the words which I have read here, quoted from the Book of Mormon, which refer to the future will be fulfilled. Those additional records will come forth, they will be published to the world, that the children of our Father may be converted to faith in Christ, our Lord and Redeemer, through obedience to the doctrines which he taught. May God our Father hasten that day, is my humble prayer, and I ask it through Jesus Christ. Amen.

I realize there are many LDS scholars and educators who disagree with President Ivins because of their own private interpretation of the scriptures. That’s fine. These are the same people who disagree with everything I’ve posted on my blogs so far, from Letter VII forward.

We can all believe whatever we want to believe. But there are many members of the Church who, like me, agree with what President Ivins said here. The LDS scholarly community continues to seek to suppress the views of those who agree with President Ivins, but we’ll continue to speak out on this blog and elsewhere.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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"Consensus science"

Yesterday John R. Christy, a Professor of Atmospheric Science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, testified before the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. His testimony is here.

He suggested that Congress organize “Red Teams” to consider the problem of climate science “because Consensus Science is not Science.” Below is an excerpt of his testimony that explains what I’ve been trying to say about the citation cartel of LDS scholars who promote the “two Cumorahs” and Mesoamerican theories of Book of Mormon geography.

See what you think.
______________________

John Christy excerpt: The term “consensus science” will often be appealed to regarding arguments about climate change to bolster an assertion. This is a form of “argument from authority.” 

Consensus, however, is a political notion, not a scientific notion. 

As I testified to the Inter-Academy Council in June 2010, wrote in Nature that same year (Christy 2010), and documented in my written House Testimony last year (House Space, Science and
Technology, 31 Mar 2011) the IPCC and other similar Assessments do not represent for me a consensus of much more than the consensus of those selected to agree with a particular consensus. 

The content of these climate reports is actually under the control of a relatively small number of individuals – I often refer to them as the “climate establishment” – who through the years, in my opinion, came to act as gatekeepers of scientific opinion and information, rather than brokers. The voices of those of us who object to various statements and emphases in these assessments are by-in-large dismissed rather than accommodated. 

This establishment includes the same individuals who become the “experts” called on to promote IPCC claims in government reports such as the Endangerment Finding by the Environmental Protection Agency. As outlined in my [31 Mar 2011] House Testimony, these “experts” become the authors and evaluators of their own research relative to research which challenges their work. 

But with the luxury of having the “last word” as “expert” authors of the reports, alternative views vanish.

I’ve often stated that climate science is a “murky” science. We do not have laboratory methods of testing our hypotheses as many other sciences do. As a result what passes for science includes, opinion, arguments-from-authority, dramatic press releases, and fuzzy notions of consensus generated by preselected groups. This is not science.

______________________

My comments: The debates in climate science differ in many respects from the debates about Book of Mormon geography and historicity, but in this respect they are the same. A small group of LDS scholars and educators has co-opted the narrative and trained thousands of Latter-day Saints to believe in a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon.

These scholars and educators know their theory relies on the “two-Cumorahs” theory, but they don’t publicize that much. In promoting the two-Cumorahs theory, they openly repudiate the words of the modern prophets and apostles, expressed in General Conference, as well as the teachings of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery about Cumorah.

As long as the two-Cumorahs theory is actively promoted and taught, members of the Church and investigators will remain “confused and disturbed in their faith in the Book of Mormon,” as Joseph Fielding Smith put it.

We’re not in a scientific endeavor here. Archaeology is more an art than a science, as is interpreting the text and the words of the modern prophets and apostles. But the analogy to science is useful because, ultimately, whatever consensus we reach needs to take into account all the relevant data. The current so-called consensus, contrived by the handful of LDS scholars and educators who promote the Mesoamerican and two-Cumorahs theories, is a huge mistake.

It is important to reach consensus among Church members regarding the location of Cumorah, at least, if for no other reason than to stop casting doubt on Joseph and Oliver and their successors.

Source: Book of Mormon Concensus

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General Conference Classics – President George Albert Smith

President George Albert Smith, speaking as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve in General Conference, April 1906, discussed his visit to Cumorah.

“We visited the Hill Cumorah and were accorded the courtesy of going thereon by the wife of Mr. George Sampson, a brother of Admiral Wm. Sampson, who before his death owned the property. When we went up there and looked around, we felt that we were standing on holy ground. The brethren located, as near as they thought was possible, the place from which the plates of the Book of Mormon were taken by the Prophet. We were delighted to be there. Looking over the surrounding country we remembered that two great races of people had wound up their existence in the vicinity, had fought their last fight, and that hundreds of thousands had been slain within sight of that hill. Evidence of the great battles that have been fought there in days gone by are manifest in the numerous spear and arrow-heads that have been found by farmers while plowing in that neighborhood. We were fortunate enough to obtain a few of the arrowheads.” (George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1906, Third Day—Morning Session p. 56).
https://archive.org/stream/conferencereport1906a#page/n57/mode/2up

As readers here know, lots of war implements have been found on and near Cumorah.

President Smith’s address was published in the Deseret News on June 30, 1906, here:

https://www.newspapers.com/image/76291582/



___________________

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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General Conference classics – Marion G. Romney

In preparation for the upcoming General Conference, here’s one of the classics from President Marion G. Romney of the First Presidency, delivered in the October 1975 General Conference.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/americas-destiny?lang=eng

Extract:

It is my purpose in making these remarks to point out from the record of ancient inhabitants of America that the foregoing decrees have been carried out.
In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the “hill Cumorah.” (Morm. 6:6.) On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries ago—events which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation.
…
As the conflict intensified, all the people who had not been slain—men “with their wives and their children” (Ether 15:15)—gathered about that hill Cumorah (see Ether 15:11).
…
Thus perished at the foot of Cumorah the remnant of the once mighty Jaredite nation, of whom the Lord had said, “There shall be none greater … upon all the face of the earth.” (Ether 1:43.)
As I contemplated this tragic scene from the crest of Cumorah and viewed the beautiful land of the Restoration as it appears today, I cried in my soul, “How could it have happened?”
…
This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites, flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites’. 
…
The tragic fate of the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations is proof positive that the Lord meant it when he said that this “is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.” (Ether 2:9.)

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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The land shadowing with wings

I’ve mentioned before that I think Nephi read Isaiah 18:1 and that’s how he knew which direction he had to sail from the Arabian peninsula; i.e., “beyond the rivers of Ethiopia” according to the King James version, or “beyond the waters of Africa” as an alternate translation.

He knew he had to sail west, around Africa, and cross the Atlantic to America. It’s pretty obvious for other reasons, as well, which I’ve discussed before.

Of course, such a crossing destroys the non-New York Cumorah theories (Mesoamerica, Panama, Chile, Baja, etc.), so proponents of those theories take the position that Nephi didn’t know about Isaiah 18:1 or didn’t refer to it as part of the process of sailing to the new world.
_________________

I’ve also shown it was Benjamin Winchester who first came up with the idea that “the land shadowing with wings” refers to North and South America. He shared his interpretation with Hyrum Smith and published it in his Gospel Reflector. He followed up with additional analysis in his History of the Priesthood. Eventually it became mainstream.

Henry Caswall visited Nauvoo in 1842 and wrote a book about the experience titled The City of the Mormon, or Three days at Nauvoo. In his book, on page 25, he describes an encounter with a Church leader, presumably John Taylor. He records this conversation:

“…my host asked me to give my opinion of Nauvoo. I told him that it was certainly a remarkable place, and in a beautiful situation ; but that I considered it the offspring of a most astonishing
and unaccountable delusion. He said that he admired my candour [sic], and was not surprised at my
unbelief, seeing that I was a stranger to the people and to the evidences of their faith. He then proceeded to inform me respecting these evidences. He assured me, in the first place, that America had been mentioned by the prophet Isaiah. I begged for the chapter and verse. He pointed to the sentence, — “Woe to the land shadowing with wings.”
Now to what land could this refer, but to North and South America, which stretched across the world with two great wings, like those of an eagle?
“Stop,” I said; “does not the prophet describe the situation of the land ? Observe that he says, ‘ it is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia.’ “
“Well,” said my host, ” that may be true ; but is not America beyond Ethiopia ?”
“Have you a map ?” I said.
“Yes,” he replied, ” here is my little girl’s school atlas.”
“Now tell me,” I said, ” where Isaiah wrote his book.”
“In Palestine,” he answered.
“Very well,” I replied; ” now tell me in what direction from Palestine is Ethiopia ?”
“South, by the map,” was the reply.
“In what direction from Palestine is America ?”
“West,” he answered.
“Now do you think that Isaiah, as a man of common sense, to say nothing of his prophetical character, would have described a country in the west, as lying beyond another which is due south ?” He was silent for a moment, and then confessed that he had never thought of studying the Bible by the map; ” but probably this map was wrong.”
_________________

Because he was a strong opponent of Mormonism, Caswall may have exaggerated about many of his observations, including this one. But I suspect he reported the conversation fairly accurately in terms of the content because this interpretation of Isaiah 18:1 became so commonplace once Winchester started it.

Today, we have a better sense of what Isaiah was referring to: i.e., the promised land of North America. (You have to read all of Isaiah 18 to see why.)

Anciently, Ethiopia was considered the land south of Egypt. From the perspective of a Jew living in Israel, Caswall’s criticism would make sense; i.e., America is not beyond Ethiopia, which would be south, but it is west, beyond the Mediterranean ocean.

However, from the perspective of Nephi, who was staying along the southern coast of the Arabian peninsula with the family of his father Lehi, Isaiah’s directions made sense. Nephi knew from Isaiah 18:1 that he’d have to sail around Africa before reaching the promised land.

There’s nothing wrong with the map. But there is something wrong with the traditional interpretation that Benjamin Winchester left us.

We ought to embrace Isaiah 18:1 and how it helps us understan
d how Nephi would have known which way to sail.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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DVDs coming out

A lot of people have asked for recordings of my presentations, so we decided to offer them for anyone interested. I’ve been editing DVDs of my presentations over the last couple of years. They will be available at the Book of Mormon Conference in Orem on April 6-8.

I think they turned out pretty well. Now I won’t have to speak as much; people can just watch the DVDs.

🙂

Here are the covers.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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The Emperor’s new clothes

The utility of a model or theory in math, science, economics, or any other field depends on its ability to explain the real world and predict how things will work in the future as we obtain more data and experience.

In my view, the models of Book of Mormon geography that put Cumorah anywhere except New York have essentially no utility.*

It’s easy to see why.

They are all based on two fundamental defects.

First, they reject what Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery said about Cumorah in Letter VII and elsewhere.

Second, they are based on a mistake in Church history that wrongly attributed to Joseph Smith statements written by others.

When your theory or model is based on such a sandy foundation, can you really be surprised when it eventually collapses?
_________

Recently a well-known tour leader claimed that when Joseph Smith was shown Catherwood’s drawings of Central America, he declared them to be ruins of Nephite cities. Of course, there is no such account. He was turning the anonymous Times and Seasons articles into a false narrative, fabricating a conversation that never took place.

Fabrication is characteristic of the non-New York Cumorah theories. Proponents “see” volcanoes, jungles, Mayan ruins, tapirs, jaguars and more in the text of the Book of Mormon. Then they expect the rest of us to “see” these things as well, like the Emperor** who expected his subjects to “see” the fine clothing made out of nothing by the clever weavers.

Like the fairy tale weavers, Mesoamerican proponents say the Mesoamerican elements in the text are invisible to those who are not sufficiently educated. You need expertise in a relevant field to understand the two-Cumorahs theory, for example.

But that’s not the only problem.

The more we learn about ancient Mesoamerican society, the less it can be construed to align with the Book of Mormon. Experts are deciphering more and more records left by the ancient inhabitants of Central America, and the more they decipher, the more it becomes obvious that no one was quoting the Old Testament or explaining the ministry of Christ.

Nevertheless, there are characteristics of most human societies that are mentioned in the Book of Mormon and in ancient Mesoamerican accounts. The Mayans had kingdoms and wars and political intrigue. So did the Book of Mormon people. But what human society has not?

If, instead of rejecting what Joseph and Oliver said, we embrace it, we soon see that the text of the Book of Mormon describes North America very well. Not only that, it makes sense, now and in the future.

Unlike in Central America, the Native American Indians in North America did not leave behind extensive written records of their kings and battles.

Hmmm, you’re thinking. Maybe that’s why Nephi, Mosiah, Alma and the rest kept such careful records of these things on metal plates. They were not engraving stones and painting murals everywhere.

Maybe that’s why Enos and Mormon and Moroni were so concerned about the Lamanites destroying the plates; without the plates, the history would be lost.

Unlike in Mesoamerica.

Instead of creating new clothes out of whole cloth (i.e., fabricated or made up), how about if we stick with what the text actually says, and what the translators of the text said about it?

Let’s agree that there is one Cumorah and that it’s in New York. Then we can discuss the geography from there.
_______________

*I acknowledge that these models are important to people living in those areas because they seem to help people liken the scriptures to themselves. This utility is unrelated to explaining the real world or predicting the future.

**Reference to “The Emperor’s New Clothes,” described this way by wikipedia:

a short tale written by Danish author Hans Christian Andersen, about two weavers who promise an emperor a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent. When the Emperor parades before his subjects in his new clothes, no one dares to say that they don’t see any suit of clothes on him for fear that they will be seen as “unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent”. Finally, a child cries out, “But he isn’t wearing anything at all!” 

Source: Book of Mormon Wars

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Unbelievable audacity at Book of Mormon Central

Book of Mormon Central published KnoWhy #288 yesterday titled “What Role Does the Book of Mormon Play in Missionary Work?”

In the abstract, it’s a nice explanation of how the Book of Mormon is essential to missionary work. I thought I’d leave it alone without comment. But on further reflection, leaving it alone is unfair to unsuspecting members and investigators.

Coming from Book of Mormon Central, this KnoWhy is unbelievably audacious.

Why?

Because Book of Mormon Central continues to promote the two-Cumorahs, Mesoamerican theory of Book of Mormon geography exclusively. It’s difficult to think of a bigger impediment to missionary work than that theory.

First, let me clarify that I really like the people at Book of Mormon Central and I appreciate the great work they’ve done in assembling reference materials. But I urge caution for anyone using the site because it does not live up to its statement of policies and in my opinion it does more harm than good regarding the geography question, which is core to the historicity question that is a major stumbling block for investigators and members alike.

Book of Mormon Central purports to be “officially geography neutral.”
https://bookofmormoncentral.org/content/policies. But you will search in vain for anything on the page that supports or even gives a voice to alternatives to the two-Cumorah, Mesoamerican theory. Instead, they publish only pro-Mesoamerican and anti-alternative articles in their archive.

The “neutral” policy is a ruse to persuade readers that, because there are no alternatives on their site, there is only one legitimate theory, and that’s the two-Cumorahs, Mesoamerican theory.

This makes sense when you realize that Book of Mormon Central is merely a front for the Book of Mormon Archaeological Forum, Inc., a long-time Mesoamerican advocacy group.
 http://www.bmaf.org/

BMAF and BMC continue to denigrate and attack other concepts that are accepted by faithful Latter-day Saints everywhere, including what Oliver Cowdery wrote about Cumorah in New York in Letter VII, which Joseph fully embraced and republished multiple times. Not to mention Church leaders speaking in General Conference as recently as the 1970s. (For more info, go to http://www.lettervii.com/.)

________________

Back to the KnoWhy.

Imagine you are an investigator. The missionaries bring you a Book of Mormon. You open it and see the images of jungles and massive stone cities and Mayan ruins. You ask the missionaries where these events took place and they tell you Central America, but no matter how many times you read the book, you don’t find those elements and the missionaries can’t point to a single scripture that mentions them.

You go online and quickly learn about Letter VII from various web sites and you ask the missionaries about Cumorah.* The missionaries refer you to FairMormon or Book of Mormon Central, which tell you Cumorah is in southern Mexico. The explanations you get boil down to Mormon scholars claiming Joseph and Oliver were ignorant speculators who were wrong, because modern Mormon scholars know better.

You say, “Didn’t you tell me Joseph and Oliver translated the Book of Mormon? That they interacted with numerous divine messengers, including the Lord himself? That they were truthful about everything that happened?”

The missionaries say, “Yes.”

You: “But Joseph and Oliver said Cumorah was in New York. So did all of their contemporaries and successors. And now you’re telling me they were wrong?”

The missionaries: “Uh, they were right about everything except when it came to the location of Book of Mormon events. They thought Cumorah was in New York, but that’s a false tradition that Joseph Smith embraced for unknown reasons. It’s manifestly absurd. Here, look at all the scholarly writings that spell this out.”

And they refer you to Book of Mormon Central (BMC), FairMormon, and the rest.

Below is a sample of what you’ll read if you go to BMC. If you take the time to read even more, you’ll find that the guru of Mesoamerican theory, John Sorenson, wrote this about the New York Cumorah that Joseph and Oliver taught:

2013. John Sorenson, in Mormon’s Codex(Deseret Book, 2015), p. 688, writes “There remain Latter-day Saints who insist that the final destruction of the Nephites took place in New York, but any such idea is manifestly absurd. Hundreds of thousands of Nephites traipsing across the Mississippi Valley to New York, pursued (why?) by hundreds of thousands of Lamanites, is a scenario worthy only of a witless sci-fi movie, not of history.”

Think of that.

What Joseph and Oliver taught is now “manifestly absurd” according to the two-Cumorahs, Mesoamerican advocates. 

And this is from a long-time BYU faculty member who is cited about 450 times on Book of Mormon Central alone.
________________

Classic articles on BMC.

Here are some of the classics on BMC. (I’ve addressed most of these on this blog if you’re interested in the alternative views you won’t find on BMC). At each link, they give you “More like this” which are additional articles that support the two-Cumorahs/Mesoamerican theory without ever linking to alternative perspectivs.

Were there two Cumorahs?

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/were-there-two-cumorahs

Abstract: No one doubts that the hill where Joseph Smith received the plates is known as Cumorah, but is the hill where the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites took place another Cumorah? The book of Ether tells us that Omer traveled to this place of the last battles of the Nephites, and that the relatively short duration of this journey would not account for the three thousand miles from Middle America to New York. A similar journey was undertaken by Limhi’s men, of equally short duration. The description of the geographical features around the final battle site is also at odds with the topography of present-day Cumorah.

Archaeology and Cumorah Questions

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/archaeology-and-cumorah-questions

Abstract: The archaeology of New York—and specifically the Hill Cumorah—is persuasive evidence that Book of Mormon peoples did not live in that region. By implication, the Cumorah of the golden plates is not the Cumorah of the final battles—Mormon’s hill and Moroni’s hill are not one and the same.

Cumorah

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/node/423

This is the entry in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism written by David Palmer, who cites his own book to explain that Cumorah cannot be in New York. This is the entry that was plagiarized for the phony fax from the office of the First Presidency that Mesoamerican advocates have cited multiple times.

The Final Battle for Cumorah

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/final-battle-cumorah

Abstract: Review of Christ in North America (1993), by Delbert W. Curtis.
Clark examines the scholarship and logic involved in assuming a one-Cumorah theory for Book of Mormon geography.

Looking for Artifacts at New York’s Hill Cumorah

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/looking-artifacts-new-york%E2%80%99s-hill-cumorah

Abstract: Landon Smith gives an account of artifact hunting in the fields surrounding Hill Cumorah, near Palmyra, New York. He presents evidence that the archaeology of New York does not support the idea that Book of Mormon peoples lived in that region or that New York’s Hill Cumorah was the scene of the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites.

Plausible Locations of the Final Battles

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/plausible-locations-final-battles

Abstract: Though evidence from the Book of Mormon is not conclusive, final battles of the Nephites and the Jaredites probably took place not far north of the narrow neck of land. As shown, the Nephites marched from Angola, through David, and eventually came to the city of Joshua (see Mormon 2:4–6). Nephite defense lines lay in Joshua for fourteen years; finally they collapsed, and Nephites retreated across the narrow neck of land, fleeing to various sites (see Mormon 2:16). The hill Ramah/Cumorah, upon which both the Jaredites and Nephites fought their last battles (see Ether 15:11; Mormon 6:4–6), is shown here on the northwestern edge of the Tuxtla Mountains in Mexico, about ninety miles from a narrow pass (see Mormon 3:5). Other Jaredite locations, including Omer’s flight to Ramah (see Ether 9:3), are also shown here. Again, these locations are plausible, but not definite.

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There are lots more beauties like these, but I have to include my favorite:*

Response to Jonathan Neville’s Two Books: Moroni’s America: The North American Setting for the Book of Mormon and Letter VII

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/response-jonathan-neville%E2%80%99s-two-books-moroni%E2%80%99s-america-north-american-setting-book-mormon

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As I’ve been saying since I attended the pre-launch open house for Book of Mormon Central in December 2015, all I ask is an equal, or at least fair, presentation of alternative viewpoints on Book of Mormon Central.

Another way to say it is all I ask is that Book of Mormon Central live up to its purported policy of neutrality.

Another way to say it is all I ask is that Book of Mormon Central live up to the Church’s policy of neutrality.

I don’t expect this to happen anytime soon, but hope springs eternal…

🙂
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*To its credit, BMC did post the first edition of my book, Letter VII. But soon enough they added Joe Anderson’s long attack article without even linking to my rebuttal, which is here:
http://interpreterpeerreviews.blogspot.com/2016/08/bmaf-criticism-my-response.html
It’s probably a good idea for BMC to avoid becoming a forum for back-and-forth debate, but so long as they are intent on promoting only one proposed Book of Mormon geography, it’s an unreliable source for serious students, investigators and members.

Source: Book of Mormon Wars