I have a comment about arson on my consensus blog, here:
https://bookofmormonconsensus.blogspot.com/

I posted it there because I hope LDS scholars and educators will refocus on reaching a consensus about the New York Cumorah.

Now, some will say they already have.

And I agree. But it’s exactly the wrong consensus. It couldn’t be more wrong.

Here is the current consensus: Our LDS scholars and educators continue to insist that the real Hill Cumorah cannot be in New York. Instead, they claim it is in southern Mexico, or Baja, or anywhere else besides New York.

Some, such as BYU faculty, insist Cumorah is actually located on a mythical abstract map in a fantasy world.

Of course, Joseph and Oliver taught unequivocally that it is in New York.

Hence the problem.

Instead of the prevailing consensus that Cumorah is anywhere but in New York, I’m asking our LDS scholars and educators to reach a consensus that Cumorah is actually in New York.

Let’s see how that turns out.

I mentioned in a previous post that Church leaders are spending a lot of their time and energy putting out fires, but they aren’t figuring out who the arsonists are. In many cases, the arsonists don’t even realize they’re setting fires. Even when they do realize it, they think they’re setting prescribed fires to prevent worse conflagrations. Or maybe they’re just leaving their campfires unattended.

What I’m referring to in the context of Book of Mormon historicity and geography is the ongoing effort by LDS scholars and educators to persuade people that Joseph and Oliver were ignorant speculators who misled the Church about the Hill Cumorah being in New York. 

Short of outright calling Joseph and Oliver liars, what could be more destructive of faith than to characterize Joseph and Oliver this way?

And yet, that teaching is implicit in everything the Mesoamerican advocates are doing. Not just the Mesoamerican advocates, but the advocates of every non-New York Cumorah, including those who promote abstract maps, the Baja theory, the Panama theory, the South American theory, and all the rest.

The entire issue boils down to whether we are going to accept Joseph and Oliver as reliable and credible witnesses (the New York Cumorah) or whether we are going to reject them as ignorant speculators who misled the Church about this essential point.
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As I’ve examined the history of the debate between the various theories of Book of Mormon geography, it has become apparent to me that much of the disagreement is word thinking.

One topic that has consumed a lot of energy has been the discussion about what is the “promised land” and where the “promised land” is located. Proponents of the Heartland and Mesoamerican theories both think they are interpreting the terminology about the “promised land” correctly, and neither side can “see” what the other side is saying. 

I happen to agree with the Heartland interpretation, but I also understand the Meso position, having accepted it for decades. That semantic debate never gets resolved. Both sides interpret the various scriptural passages and statements from Church leaders in a way that confirms their respective biases. Such word thinking can never lead to a consensus. It’s like the never-ending debates between Mormons and Christians in which both sides use the same terms but with different meanings attached to the terms. These debates are inherently contentious and frustrating. They turn people off.

This word thinking is two-dimensional. It looks real, it seems meaningful, but it misses the main point. Debating the meaning of words is surface-level thinking. Additional examples are the debates over the interpretation of the “narrow neck of land,” whether a “narrow neck” is the same thing as a “narrow neck of land,” whether these are the same as a “small neck of land,” and so forth. Such debates cannot lead to consensus because they are merely exercises in bias confirmation.
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Elder Holland recently withdrew a missionary story he related at the Mission Presidents Seminar because he discovered, after the fact, that some elements were incorrect. He had repeated it as it had been told to him and immediately corrected the situation when he found out the truth. That’s exactly how these situations should be handled.

I wish our LDS scholars and educators who continue to promote the Mesoamerican and two-Cumorahs theories would follow that example.

The withdrawal prompted an article in the Deseret News that included a quotation from Keith Erekson, director of the LDS Church History Library.

“Typically, any story is incomplete, and different tellings of the story become contradictory,” he said. “The past is gone. We have just pieces of it in the form of stories. Whenever we encounter a piece of the past, we always have to ask, what is this piece? Who did it come from? How do I make sense of it today?”

These are excellent questions and I’ve tried to address them in my research into Church history and Book of Mormon issues.
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Recently I was asked to provide a clear statement of what I think about all of this. I’ve done so before, but I keep learning new things.

Because so many new readers keep coming to this blog, I’m posting the latest version below. It’s a little long, but I think it gives a good idea of what my blogs and books and presentations and videos are all about.

Here is an excerpt from the concluding paragraphs:

Just to be clear: I think the Mesoamerican theory is false, and CES teachers should abandon it as soon as possible. I think everyone who has promoted the Mesoamerican theory ought to reject it publicly and reaffirm the credibility and reliability of Oliver Cowdery.

As always, I welcome input, corrections, suggestions, etc.
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1. You can accept Letter VII and believe the Hill Cumorah is in New York.
2. You can reject Letter VII and put Cumorah somewhere else. Where else doesn’t really matter.

Oliver wrote the eight historical letters, including Letter VII, partly in response to the book Mormonism Unvailed that was published in Painesville, Ohio, in October 1834. In that book, on p. 38, the author writes, “The divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon is the question now before us.”

He then follows with a series of criticisms of the text as well as Joseph Smith. Among other things, the author criticizes the 3 Witnesses. “But if the plates were hid by the angel so that they have not been seen since, how do these witnesses know that when Smith translated out of a hat, with a peep-stone, that the contents of the plates were repeated and written down?” (p. 78)

When viewed in this context, we can better understand why Oliver Cowdery wrote about Cumorah the way he did. He said it was a fact that the final battles took place there. He said Mormon’s depository was in the same hill. He explained that “thousands” of Jaredites died there, and “tens of thousands” of Nephites and Lamanites.

In short, Oliver wrote Letter VII to establish facts that contradict the messages of anti-Mormons as early as 1844. In our day, we also need to be familiar with Letter VII and the other historical letters for basically the same reasons.

Regarding the Book of Mormon, the FairMormon conference focuses exclusively on the Mesoamerican and two-Cumorahs theories. They refuse to allow speakers who support alternatives, which is why you’ll never learn about Letter VII, the two sets of plates, or other historical facts and scenarios that contradict the Mesoamerican and two-Cumorahs theories.

Just to be clear, once again, on a personal level I respect and like every presenter that I’ve met, and I’m sure I’d feel the same about those I haven’t yet had a chance to meet. My objections to their methodology and ideology are substantive, not personal in any way.

If you go, you will enjoy meeting the presenters. But you will also be shocked and dismayed at their approach to the Book of Mormon. Every presenter I know will teach that Joseph and Oliver were ignorant speculators who misled the Church about the Hill Cumorah being in New York. You’ll hear about the Mesoamerican setting and the “real Cumorah” being in Mexico.

Or, worse, you’l learn about the imaginary “abstract” map of Book of Mormon lands currently being taught at BYU, which shows Cumorah not in New York, but in an imaginary land that resembles a video game or fantasy novel.

If you go, you should ask as many people as you can what they think about Cumorah. And ask why they would teach BYU students that the Book of Mormon took place in a fantasy world.
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As we’ve seen, the two-Cumorahs theory was developed as a response to the notion that the “real Cumorah” could not be in New York because so many people were killed at that site.

Over at my Letter VII blog, I posted an analysis of the numbers of people who died during the final battles at Cumorah. Here’s the link: http://www.lettervii.com/2017/07/more-about-cumorahs-casualties.html

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A few days ago, I commented on what Oliver Cowdery taught about the battles at Cumorah in New York I wrote this:

Oliver explained that Mormon foresaw the approaching destruction and its parallel to the Jaredite destruction in the same place. Speaking from Mormon’s perspective, and after describing the mile-wide valley west of the Hill Cumorah, Oliver wrote:

“In this vale lie commingled, in one mass of ruin the ashes of thousands, and in this vale was destined to consume the fair forms and vigerous systems of tens of thousands of the human race—blood mixed with blood, flesh with flesh, bones with bones and dust with dust!”

Oliver described the remains of the Jaredites as “the ashes of thousands.” Not millions, but thousands. Not even tens of thousands. Just thousands.

When we read the Book of Mormon carefully, we recognize that Oliver was correct. The 8-day Jaredite battle at Cumorah could not have involved more than a few thousand, as we see from the count of the actual number killed on the last two days. Coriantumr realized that two million of his people had been killed long before they reached Ramah, or Cumorah. (Ether 13) There were additional battles leading up to Cumorah. Even after four years, they could gather only a relatively few people to Cumorah, so few that after six days of battle, there were only 121 people left. The next day, there were only 59 left. Even if we assume that half the people were killed each day, that calculates to about 7,744 on the first day of battle.

Hence, Oliver wrote that there were the “ashes of thousands,” not even tens of thousands.

Same with the Nephites.

Oliver says “tens of thousands” were to be killed, including Lamanites and Nephites. 

Mormon said he could see 20,000 from the top of Cumorah. (Mormon 6:11-12). The rest of his people, the ones Mormon lists in verses 13-15, had died long before the final battle at Cumorah. Mormon and Moroni could not see those dead people from Cumorah. Let’s say an equivalent number of Lamanites were killed. That totals 40,000. This fits the “tens of thousands” Oliver mentioned.

You can read this right out of Joseph Smith’s own history, titled History, 1834-1836, which is found in the Joseph Smith Papers here: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/83. The portion I quoted is from this page: http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/92
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Questions have been raised about my comments on the numbers of Nephites killed. Here are the verses from Mormon 6, with my commentary.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children,
[When Mormon wrote “my people” here, was he referring only to men? If he meant only men, why write “people” here? I think he was speaking about all the people, using the term “with” to mean “including.” Other interpretations are also possible.]
did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers. [This is a relative term, of course. There were lots of Lamanites, presumably more than there were Nephites, but Mormon gives not absolute or even estimated numbers.]

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war. [In terms of evidence, we would not expect to find metal or wood implements after 1400 years of exposure in western New York. Stone implements and components have been found in the vicinity of Cumorah, as well as on the hill itself.]

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me,
[the phrase “yea, even” is used about 182 times in the Book of Mormon, usually to expand on or explain the previous thought. E.g., “becoming wicked, and wild, and ferocious, yea, even becoming Lamanites” “hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God” “they came to a land, yea, even a very beautiful and pleasant land.” Following this usage, I think Mormon is saying, “my men were hewn down; in fact, all ten thousand of my people were killed.”]
and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11 And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people
[here, Mormon uses “my people” to refer to everyone, not just his men, unless we want to believe there were women and children in addition to the 24 survivors, which doesn’t make sense.]
save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.
[There is an argument that the “ten thousand” refers to a military unit. But it can also refer to a group of people including men, women and children, which is how I think Mormon uses it here.]

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.
[Again, he doesn’t specify men, but refers to “my people” who were led by Mormoni. The other key point here is that from the top of Cumorah, Mormon could see his ten thousand and Moroni’s ten thousand. But he doesn’t say he can see anyone else.]

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.
[Notice the change. Instead of writing “we beheld” or “we did behold,” Mormon writes “And behold.” This phrase is used about 250 times in the Book of Mormon. It is used to call attention, not to recount what the writer is seeing. This is why the transition from verse 12 to 13 can be confusing if we’re not reading carefully. The word “behold” can be a transitive verb meaning to observe. But is also used as an intransitive verb in the imperative to call attention to something. That’s how Mormon uses it here. Notice, in verses 11 and 12 it’s transitive because he writes “we beheld” and “we did behold,” but in verse 13, it’s intransitive. Here are other examples from the text. “he has testified aright unto us concerning our iniquities. And behold they are many.” “And behold, there was peace in all the land.”  “And this is the commandment which I have received; and behold, they shall come forth.”
The question is, why would Mormon write about his previous leaders and their people who had fallen? 
First, he was with his son on top of the Hill Cumorah in New York looking back on everything that had happened. In verses 17-22, he reflects on the loss of his entire nation, the people who had refused his call to repent all the way back to the time when he was 15 and saw their wickedness and wanted to preach, but was prevented (Mormon 1:15). This was around 325 A.D., and in Chapter 6, he’s writing around 385 A.D. He’s looking back at 60 years of his life. In Chapter 5, he recounts how he agreed to lead the Nephite armies again in 379 A.D. He describes the conflict, the Lamanites burning towns, villages and cities, treading the Nephites under their feet, and sweeping down and destroying all the Nephites who were not fast enough to flee, even after the Nephites “did stand against them boldly.” After 380, Mormon says he stopped writing about the “awful scene of blood and carnage” until he writes the letter in 384 and gathers “all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.” It’s possible they gathered more than 20,000 to the land of Cumorah, but by the time they retreated to the hill Cumorah, there were only the 20,000 left. That’s why Oliver wrote that there were tens of thousands of bodies left, which presumably included dead Lamanites.]

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.
[These were all people killed earlier in the Lamanites wars, or possibly killed in the land of Cumorah, but not at the hill (because Mormon couldn’t see them from the top of the hill).]

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.
[Over the course of years of fighting, it’s not surprising that some would escape to the south and others would desert over to the Lamanites.]

Joseph Smith not only helped write Oliver’s 8 historical letters, but he made sure all members of the Church would read them, even after they were published in the Messenger and Advocate, by (i) including them in his own history, (ii) encouraging Benjamin Winchester to republish them in the Gospel Reflector in Philadelphia, (iii) giving them to his brother Don Carlos to publish in the Times and Seasons, (iv) alluding to Cumorah in D&C 128. It’s difficult to see how Joseph could have made Letter VII any better known to the members of the Church, short of adding it to the Doctrine and Covenants.

And, don’t forget, part of Letter I is included in the Pearl of Great Price.

Plus, Letter VII was republished in England in an 1844 pamphlet. It was republished in The Prophet, the Millennial Star, and the Improvement Era.

Amnesia about Letter VII took hold in the early 1900s when scholars began insisting that the “real Cumorah” was in Mexico. Letter VII has never been published in the Ensign. You won’t find it in any of the publications by the citation cartel, with the exception of an early first draft of my book which Book of Mormon Central, to their credit, included in their archive, here.
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Oliver wrote the letters partly in response to the October 1834 publication of Mormonism Unvailed. I’ve discussed this before so I won’t belabor it. But look at the specific issues Oliver answered in his letters.

1. Location of Cumorah in New York. Oliver explained exactly where the final battles took place: in the valley west of the Hill Cumorah in New York. No need to speculate about other locations or go on search parties to Mexico.

2. Location of Mormon’s repository (Mormon 6:6) in the Hill Cumorah in New York. Oliver unambiguously declared the location to be in the same hill where Joseph found the plates. Later, Brigham Young told us about Oliver’s personal experiences inside the depository.

3. The numbers of people killed during the final battles at Cumorah; i.e., there were “thousands” of Jaredites killed (less than 10,000) and “tens of thousands” of Nephites and Lamanites. This is far fewer than the numbers usually cited by anti-Mormons and Mesoamerian supporters.

Amnesia about Letter VII has led LDS scholars and educators to speculate and write extensively about these three issues, all oblivious to what Oliver wrote. Or, worse than amnesia, actively disagreeing with Oliver.

Rather than ignore, forget about, or actively oppose what Oliver and Joseph taught through these letters, we should embrace these teachings. 

FairMormon is having their annual conference on August 3-4. It will be held in Provo. I have a conflict so I can’t attend. Plus, they somehow forgot to invite me to speak.

🙂

I encourage people to attend their conference, or watch it over the Internet, so you can see for yourselves that I’m not making anything up regarding their teachings. You might find it a bit pricey–a one-day pass is $30.95 without lunch, or $42.95 with lunch, but for “S&I” it is only $10 for both days because they desperately want to maintain Mesomania as long as possible, and the best way to do that is through S&I.

Look at their agenda, on this page: https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2017

I predict that they will teach the following:

1. The Church approves of Darwinian evolution
2. The best way to understand the Book of Mormon is by using an abstract map that puts Cumorah into a mythical video-game setting.
3. Cumorah cannot be in New York.
4. Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were ignorant speculators who misled the Church about Cumorah being in New York.
5. Mesoamerican history is basically Book of Mormon history because of all the correspondences between Mesoamerica and what the text would have said had Joseph translated it correctly.

At the end of the conference, I’ll review these predictions. Hopefully, my predictions will have turned out wrong.

But I doubt it.
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In this preparation post, I’ll point out why you should never refer people to FairMormon when they encounter anti-Mormon propaganda.

In this case, FairMormon responds to questions posed by “The Interactive Bible.”

Response to “Difficult Questions for Mormons: Book of Mormon Geography”

Here’s the link.

FairMormon purports do to “fact checking” that results in this typical conclusion:

FACT CHECKING RESULTS: THIS CLAIM CONTAINS PROPAGANDA AND/OR SPIN – THE AUTHOR, OR THE AUTHOR’S SOURCE, IS PROVIDING INFORMATION OR IDEAS IN A SLANTED WAY IN ORDER TO INSTILL A PARTICULAR ATTITUDE OR RESPONSE IN THE READER

Think about that in the context of FairMormon’s overall editorial approach. Then read their response to questions about Cumorah on this web page and see for yourselves how they carefully avoid the most important parts of Letter VII and related material in their futile effort to preserve their Mesoamerican and two-Cumorahs theory.

FairMormon goes so far as to quote from one part of Letter VII to support the idea that Oliver supported a hemispheric model, without even mentioning what Oliver said about Cumorah!

In my view, the anti-Mormon writers are far more honest in their questions than FairMormon is with its answers.